Mate, you make some good points but even I think you re over the top!
Perhaps cos English is not your first language and you cant express yourself as eloquently as you would have liked.
Yes i am an idiot because i answered the "who Mourinho was" question without having in mind "where" the conversation will go considering i am discussing with people they support Moyes (oh my God)
1. Mourinho had IMMEDIATE succeses wherever he worked. His teams NEVER had the picture this year Utd have.
2. Mourinho had worked with Sir Bobby and Luis Van Ghal. Even as a translator, that is credencials,
3. Porto IS NOT Utd, Portuguese league IS NOT Premier League, genius Mourinho cannot be compared in any matter with a 50 years old manager that won NOTHING in his carreer.
11 years in Everton, not even a Cup win. I leave you smart people to discuss. Idiot out.
Yes i am an idiot because i answered the "who Mourinho was" question without having in mind "where" the conversation will go considering i am discussing with people they support Moyes (oh my God)
1. Mourinho had IMMEDIATE succeses wherever he worked. His teams NEVER had the picture this year Utd have.
2. Mourinho had worked with Sir Bobby and Luis Van Ghal. Even as a translator, that is credencials,
3. Porto IS NOT Utd, Portuguese league IS NOT Premier League, genius Mourinho cannot be compared in any matter with a 50 years old manager that won NOTHING in his carreer.
11 years in Everton, not even a Cup win. I leave you smart people to discuss. Idiot out.
Whenever I see Mourinho's name thrown around, someone always points out towards the money he's had. He has money to spend because he's WC manager and he now has teams ready to meet his demands. He's earned it.
" Mourinho found a new managerial post in April 2001 with*Uni?o de Leiria, whom he took to their*highest-ever league finish*of fifth place after joining the club" that's obviously from Wiki. He went to Brazil and pulled out unknown players to achieve this, not making this up, he himself said it in an interview.
Not just league, he also won UCL with Porto and Inter. He enjoyed money at Chelsea and RM no doubt, that doesn't necessarily mean he can only deliver success when given big budget. (Even though many don't consider his time at Madrid successful)
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Anyway what people choose to ignore about what those of us who dont think Moyes should stay are saying is: we are not saying (or at least I am not) that Moyes should not stay any longer cos he was a "nobody" (or at least a nobody for a top team job) before he took over us. What we are saying is that bearing in mind the fact that he didnt really set the world alight previously (not winning even a trophy, never managing to beat a top team away etc) his apparent cluelessness tactically, his general public demeanour, breaking all those negative records etc since he took us over "seem" together to show that he will be unable to improve us (let alone put us back on our "perch") and that to give him time in the contemporary extremely competitive football world would only serve to make the damage he causes be all the more difficult to improve.
Irrespective of anything whatever happens this season HE WONT be sacked. He WILL be given another season but I think if by Xmas then he doesnt show marked improvement his days will be numbered.
And another thing. A long term policy is theoretically an extremely good thing. Its when it flies in the face of all reasonableness that it, well, seems stupid. I understand the position of Mike et al who advocate patience (and dont deny that viewed coldly it may seem reasonable - hence it is the popular opinion at least on this site) and recognise that deep down we may even be in agreement and that ultimately it may just be a difference of opinion regarding the "degree" of patience required. I also acknowledge that we are all (incl those of you who keep trying to ridicule my arguments by refusing to look at them spherically and instead take stuff piecemeal out of context and/or chose to ignore what Im really saying) united by one thing: our utter love for UTD.
My issue with you is that you want him to fail. If he fails, United fail. And that's my issue with that line of thinking. United aren't a charity, they are not just gonna let him muddle along. They will give him whatever it takes to make him succeed, because if he does it means the club does. More to the point, sacking him without a plan is pointless in the extreme. all it does it set you back even further, especially when you take into account all the transfer work and all the stuff going on behind the scenes like the academy. **** you wanted him gone before Christmas, which is crazy.
Where did I say that? you've missed the point entirely. don't make up things I haven't said.Yet you're happy just to write a season off because Moyes has taken over.. sorry man but Moyes deserves most of the criticism he is getting, actually the media has been quite easy on him so far, it's slowly changing though.
This squad isn't bad, playing and losing is acceptable, it's the way we're losing.... the tactics have looked so amateur at the best of times and he goes into games with a cautious mindset then suddenly throws on strikers for midfielders hoping somehow it will work....
My issue with you is that you want him to fail. If he fails, United fail. And that's my issue with that line of thinking. United aren't a charity, they are not just gonna let him muddle along. They will give him whatever it takes to make him succeed, because if he does it means the club does. More to the point, sacking him without a plan is pointless in the extreme. all it does it set you back even further, especially when you take into account all the transfer work and all the stuff going on behind the scenes like the academy. **** you wanted him gone before Christmas, which is crazy.
You wanted people to boo him, got angry they didnt, and you wanted us to lose in the hope he was sacked. Come on now, can you not see why people would question that?Mate I dont want him to fail! From the beginning when I voiced my concern in this here thread (and told to stop sounding like an Arsenal fan!(H)) people, you included, have been questioning my allegiance. I would never dream to question any fan's love for UTD (any REAL fans such as most people here) and have NEVER done so yet, at every opportunity Ive had people here questioning mine. Yes my love borders on the pathological, yes I make some "controversial" points but take for example your claim that I want MOYES to fail.
I dont! I dont want UTD to fail mate (watching ****** and Lfc lording it about at the top in our absence makes me want to puke), I just "know" that we will under Moyes and would like to see him go before he turns us into the LFC of the past 20 years.
Plus I ve repeatedly stated that I would GLADLY SEE MYSELF BE PROVEN WRONG (though Im worried that Im right).
After all it really is: UTD - KIDS - WIFE ... innit?
and you wanted us to lose in the hope he was sacked.
Where did I say that? you've missed the point entirely. don't make up things I haven't said.
Doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I'm just weighing up one bad season vs work that needs to be done for long term. This is where I judge him, because this defines whether we go back to 2006-2009 levels. Now the club must watch his transfer window carefully. If he looks like he is getting it right, you back him into next season to build with those players , because worst case scenario you already have the right players if you need to let him go. If, however he looks like he is failing in the window, then you let him go in the window (if club is smart they will be looking at back up plans). Moyes already knows this, which is why he and Woodward have been setting up and moving players already. Because he lives and dies by this window. It's also why, barring a monumental fallout with all the players, he wont get sacked. that doesn't mean he gets to be average next season either, anything less than top 4 will see him sacked and I would say rightly so.You have stated numerous times that this season is a write off.
Edit: Unless I'm mistaking you for someone else....
Mate I dont want him to fail! From the beginning when I voiced my concern in this here thread (and told to stop sounding like an Arsenal fan!(H)) people, you included, have been questioning my allegiance. I would never dream to question any fan's love for UTD (any REAL fans such as most people here) and have NEVER done so yet, at every opportunity Ive had people here questioning mine. Yes my love borders on the pathological, yes I make some "controversial" points but take for example your claim that I want MOYES to fail.
I dont! I dont want UTD to fail mate (watching ****** and Lfc lording it about at the top in our absence makes me want to puke), I just "know" that we will under Moyes and would like to see him go before he turns us into the LFC of the past 20 years.
Plus I ve repeatedly stated that I would GLADLY SEE MYSELF BE PROVEN WRONG (though Im worried that Im right).
After all it really is: UTD - KIDS - WIFE ... innit?
Please, for the love of us who's first language isn't English, use some punctuation marks.this is exactly how i feel as a man utd fan i hate it when people call u a glory supporter for not believing in moyes i didnt want him to be the manager but when he got the job i was fully behind him and i was still behind him but the mata signing didnt impress me but still i was behind him as the manager of man utd but when we played olympiakos it is the most embarassing think i've seen in being a manchester united fan for 20 yrs (since i was 5 years old) if we lose 8-0 even i can handle it if the team makes a go of it but it was like they didnt give a **** when kagawa came on it summed our game style under moyes kagawa passes & moves into space but instead of a fwd pass to kagawa moving into space it was a back pass it just summed up our style under moyes but saying that we dont seem to have a style under him which is the most worrying part the world most mentally strong side turn poor overnight i dont think so alot more to it
You have stated numerous times that this season is a write off.
Edit: Unless I'm mistaking you for someone else....
Doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I'm just weighing up one bad season vs work that needs to be done for long term. This is where I judge him, because this defines whether we go back to 2006-2009 levels. Now the club must watch his transfer window carefully. If he looks like he is getting it right, you back him into next season to build with those players , because worst case scenario you already have the right players if you need to let him go. If, however he looks like he is failing in the window, then you let him go in the window (if club is smart they will be looking at back up plans). Moyes already knows this, which is why he and Woodward have been setting up and moving players already. Because he lives and dies by this window. It's also why, barring a monumental fallout with all the players, he wont get sacked. that doesn't mean he gets to be average next season either, anything less than top 4 will see him sacked and I would say rightly so.
All valid points as Ive been saying all along (tho to me they fly in the face of facts/available evidence obviously but still valid in principle). Yet we ll be presented with a different (additional) problem if things pan out the way you suggest transferwise (as it looks like they wiil): Moyes will have too many new players to integrate in too short a time.
I hope he doesnt get overboard and rid of players like: Valencia (basically **** for two seasons but can still do a job as a back up), Rafael (incredulous is not the word for what I am when I see his name bandied about as one of those who are on the outer - the guy is class and a bit of an off season in what is really a trainwreck of a season shouldnt obscure it), Smalling (give him another chance in his proper position I say), Chicharito and Kagawa.
Those who should go are: Young, Cleverley, Rio (together with Vida and Evra) and Welbeck (I know people like the latter but for me he's not really good enough for UTD, rarely scores and just basically runs around a lot).