The Manchester United Thread

Mike. said:
There's no such thing as reducing the time required. 6 days is a mandatory period for the concussion protocol. You cannot go faster than 6 days. Simple as that.
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Yeah I read it as a 14 Day stand down UNLESS requirements were met, in which case it MAY be reduced. So Utd meet the medical requirements to reduce the stand down from 14-days, as per the FA guidelines.
 
Snorks said:
Yeah I read it as a 14 Day stand down UNLESS requirements were met, in which case it MAY be reduced. So Utd meet the medical requirements to reduce the stand down from 14-days, as per the FA guidelines.
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I'll have to see what football actually doing. But the global medical standard is 6 days where you go through eggs known as the Return to Play protocol, and if you fail any of it you start from the beginning, which takes another minimum 6 days.
 
Theatre of Dreams83 said:
Luke Shaw: Manchester United defender could face Watford a week after concussion - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45502131

Apparently United have an advanced care unit that reduces the time required.
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If that’s correct then English football continues to be a complete joke in disregarding the seriousness of head injuries.

As Mike said above, you can’t rush a concussion. The protocol is there for a reason or else what’s the point?

You don’t F with head injuries. You just don’t. Guys health should always be paramount.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
If that’s correct then English football continues to be a complete joke in disregarding the seriousness of head injuries.

As Mike said above, you can’t rush a concussion. The protocol is there for a reason or else what’s the point?

You don’t F with head injuries. You just don’t. Guys health should always be paramount.
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It's not a complete joke if he he passes his protocols. Watford is more than 6 days after injury
 
Playing a lad that was down that length of time concussed a week on? I’m no MD (although I have had the worst experience of delayed concussion withbtge worst possible outcome), but any player should be held out of the next game with that severity and timeframe to me.

I get that there’s no set process for a recovery as there’s varying degree’s of concussion but that’s lax to me and the protocol needs a review in that case IMHO. (As there does regardless in a lot of this. Like having a specialised neurotrauma guy at all games to fully ***** players who have head injuries. Still far too many allowed to continue in a game.).
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
Playing a lad that was down that length of time concussed a week on? I’m no MD (although I have had the worst experience of delayed concussion withbtge worst possible outcome), but any player should be held out of the next game with that severity and timeframe to me.

I get that there’s no set process for a recovery as there’s varying degree’s of concussion but that’s lax to me and the protocol needs a review in that case IMHO. (As there does regardless in a lot of this. Like having a specialised neurotrauma guy at all games to fully ***** players who have head injuries. Still far too many allowed to continue in a game.).
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You're misunderstanding. This isn't a random club protocol. There is a set global medical protocol for concussion, that has been created by, and is constantly being assessed by leading neuro surgeons and scientists. It's called the Return to Play protocol.

I'm not sure you can call for it to be reviewed, when it's already designed and constantly reviewed by medical experts

This is the medical recovery and battery testing that players must pass at all stages to return. It takes a minimum of six days to pass, if you fail at any stage of the 6 stages, you must wait 24 hours and start the whole 6 day process again. It's the exact same medical protocol rugby use for example

It's not lax at all. It's the same as rugby. Missing the next game is only relevant if the game is within that 6 day period (double that for 16-19 year olds) this process can't be sped up, only extended, which happens if they fail at any point. So if he passes, he's in contention, if he fails he will not play at all, and would miss any following game if it was less than 6 days after Watford as he would have to take the testing all over again.

Also the team doctors, and independent medical staff at games are trained looking for the signs of concussion. Hence the HIA assessment in Rugby.
 
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Mike. said:
Also the team doctors, and independent medical staff at games are trained looking for the signs of concussion. Hence the HIA assessment in Rugby.
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I hope they're better trained than the medical staff of Marocco during the World Cup ;)
Good post anyways Mike
 
I never thought it was a club protocol mate. I know the FA dictated criteria.

I just don’t agree that it’s stringent enough when it comes to head injuries.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
I never thought it was a club protocol mate. I know the FA dictated criteria.

I just don’t agree that it’s stringent enough when it comes to head injuries.
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It's not FA dictated criteria, it's global medical criteria following the international Conference on Concussion in Sport back in 2014 and leading neuro experts currently disagree with you. And I know who I'm backing on this.
 
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Why would you need a specific protocol for coming out of a sport concussion, though.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
I never thought it was a club protocol mate. I know the FA dictated criteria.

I just don’t agree that it’s stringent enough when it comes to head injuries.
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Then you need to take that up with neuro-scientists and sports scientists that put it together.
 
Tyton said:
Why would you need a specific protocol for coming out of a sport concussion, though.
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Because it is nigh on impossible to predict long-term effects of even a minor concussion. So the protocol is basically, a graduated return to activity, starting with some testing to assess, then light aerobic where patient's mobility, balance, coordination etc are all monitored closely along with cardiac performance and reactions.

Then stepped up a bit further. Monitored, tested etc.

Simply a way to assess whether or not the brain has fully recovered from the rattling it received. For player safety long term, the 'stand-down' period protects the player from being pushed back into action too early where further damage may occur.

While concussion is bad enough, the long-term effects of secondary concussion are quite frightening - a bruised brain, not fully recovered, can be re-injured without any significant external contact - normal movement of the head can re-injure in many situations.

So while the RTP protocol governs when a player can return to the field, it is just as much about the prevention of further, far more serious repercussions.

A player can play, without too much problem, before having fully recovered from a pulled hamstring for example, because if it goes again, it can still be repaired.
If the brain 'goes again' it can't. So you get the "Probably get 20 minutes out of him boss" when returning from a hammy, but a "Definately not" when recovering from a brain injury.

Was it Taylor Twerman, played for USA, had to stop playing because of repetitive concussion? Before the RTP protocol was developed? I know he was quite vocal about the need for it.
 
Snorks said:
Because it is nigh on impossible to predict long-term effects of even a minor concussion. So the protocol is basically, a graduated return to activity, starting with some testing to assess, then light aerobic where patient's mobility, balance, coordination etc are all monitored closely along with cardiac performance and reactions.

Then stepped up a bit further. Monitored, tested etc.

Simply a way to assess whether or not the brain has fully recovered from the rattling it received. For player safety long term, the 'stand-down' period protects the player from being pushed back into action too early where further damage may occur.

While concussion is bad enough, the long-term effects of secondary concussion are quite frightening - a bruised brain, not fully recovered, can be re-injured without any significant external contact - normal movement of the head can re-injure in many situations.

So while the RTP protocol governs when a player can return to the field, it is just as much about the prevention of further, far more serious repercussions.

A player can play, without too much problem, before having fully recovered from a pulled hamstring for example, because if it goes again, it can still be repaired.
If the brain 'goes again' it can't. So you get the "Probably get 20 minutes out of him boss" when returning from a hammy, but a "Definately not" when recovering from a brain injury.

Was it Taylor Twerman, played for USA, had to stop playing because of repetitive concussion? Before the RTP protocol was developed? I know he was quite vocal about the need for it.
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To add to this, a secondary concussion, or Second impact Syndrome, isn't just highly dangerous, it can be lethal. There have been fatalities in rugby from it in the amateur game, and a total of 44 elite players have had their careers ended by concussions and their symptoms.
 
Getting back to the game tomorrow, I honestly think it's massive in context of our season. Whilst people can say it's only one game, we've already lost two games we shouldn't have so there is now little room for error against these teams. But lets not kid ourselves Watford are flying at the moment, but if we have any hope of doing anything in the league, we must win it.

If we don't we could be 9 points behind teams like Chelsea and Liverpool which is a crazy point gap that I simply can't see us turning around, even this early in the season.
 
zzeezzy said:
Getting back to the game tomorrow, I honestly think it's massive in context of our season. Whilst people can say it's only one game, we've already lost two games we shouldn't have so there is now little room for error against these teams. But lets not kid ourselves Watford are flying at the moment, but if we have any hope of doing anything in the league, we must win it.

If we don't we could be 9 points behind teams like Chelsea and Liverpool which is a crazy point gap that I simply can't see us turning around, even this early in the season.
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It's really not massive in the context of out season. What happens if we win this and lose the next one? what matters is getting consistency. But this game isn't any bigger than any others.
 
JOSE PRES CONFERENCE: Jose says that Diogo Dalot & Marcos Rojo will play for the u23s tonight.


If they come out of that match without any issue they will be available for next week.


Manchester United give injuries update
Fellaini is a doubt. Ander Herrera is out. He had one little problem in one medical in training during the week, so he is also a doubt.


Could Luke Shaw play vs Watford?
I don’t know - we still have a training session, Jose Mourinho told reporters.

Contrary to some news, to some opinions, by the protocol point of view and according to our doctor, he will be free to play.

The only situation we have to analyse is if you are going to play him when, during the week, he was not training with the team or if, even so, he decides to play.


Mourinho: 'I can expect that Sunday I'm going to be highly criticised for not playing Rashford tomorrow.' #mufc


​
 
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Mourinho on 'obsessives': 'People that called me and ask me to fall at Wembley because they need news from me, so I made it on purpose so you could speak about myself. Was a good dive and I protect my phones. No penalty and maybe a yellow card.' #mufc
 
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