The Tottenham Hotspur Thread

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Ok maybe saying they are "poor" is a touch to far. But seriously, why should England not be beating teams like these, not getting out of our group would be a disgrace. The FA were wrong from the start, why did the manager even have to be English?

We beaten Sweden something like once since 1968, and that was a friendly. Either England have been a poorer side than you make out all this time, which counters you saying we're great and should expect results, or Sweden are a better side than you make out, and you're being disrespectful.
 
We beaten Sweden something like once since 1968, and that was a friendly. Either England have been a poorer side than you make out all this time, which counters you saying we're great and should expect results, or Sweden are a better side than you make out, and you're being disrespectful.

I never said England are geat, I am not being disrespectful either. That record against the Swede's is abyssmal and everyone is making out like England have bad players and Sweden have world beaters, only one who comes close is Ibrahimovic, who is the main threat. Apart from that there is Johan Elmander (did great at Bolton.......) and Kim Kallstrom.
 
England should be qualifying from this group. There is no If's or But's, we are better than Ukraine and Sweden..

Against the bigger teams Roy's tactics may work, like Franc, but against these sides where we should be controlling the game, i worry about, we should be putting them under pressure, as teams like Sweden and Ukraine will make more mistakes being put under pressure, But that is not the Hodgson way...
 
England should be qualifying from this group. There is no If's or But's, we are better than Ukraine and Sweden..

Against the bigger teams Roy's tactics may work, like Franc, but against these sides where we should be controlling the game, i worry about, we should be putting them under pressure, as teams like Sweden and Ukraine will make more mistakes being put under pressure, But that is not the Hodgson way...

I agree, Denmark are an example, not got great individuals but are still a very good team and they play out from the back, try and keep the ball no matter who they are against, why can't we do that? Not only this but England does have some great individual players, Gerrard, Rooney, Cole, Hart (at this Euro's).
 

[h=6]Five reasons why Daniel Levy was right to sack Harry Redknapp

Harry Redknapp’s friends in the press have been having cardiac arrests ever since he was fired by Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy, they have called the decision mental, idiotic and so forth, they are blinded by their loyalty and friendship to the 65 year old and ignore the cold hard truth about the former Portsmouth manager, that he deserved to be given the boot by the Tottenham supremo.

1) Inflated achievement

Some perspective is required here, so much is being said about Harry Redknapp taking Tottenham from relegation to Champions League, that view is too simplistic and some perspective is required.

Under Martin Jol, Tottenham finished 5th two seasons running, Spurs were a steady top six team, it was only when Juande Ramos took over that Tottenham started to fall away, any manager worth his salt, with the players available at Spurs, would have lifted them from 2nd bottom after Ramos was fired , it was hardly the greatest achievement known to man kind, all Redknapp did was restore Spurs to their rightful place as a top six spot.

Under Harry Redknapp they lost the Carling Cup final, they lost two FA Cup semi finals under Redknapp, one against a relegated Portsmouth side that should never ever have beaten Spurs and one against bitter rivals Chelsea in a 5-1 thrashing, even Juande Ramos won a trophy for Spurs, something Redknapp could not do and Ramos was an unmitigated disaster.

Redknapp’s achievements are comparable with Martin Jol and Jol was deemed not good enough, so why is Redknapp.

2) Unable to stop the rot when it set in

Yes Redknapp took Tottenham to third with a ten point cushion and if that would had been maintained then this sacking would indeed be questionable, but he did not, what he did was oversee a collapse of biblical proportions and as that collapse continued it became very obvious that Redknapp had no idea how to stop it.

Redknapp did not try any new faces, no new tactics, just sent out the same team week after week with the same tactics and whatever way one looks at it, to lose a lead over Arsenal like they did is simply unforgivable.

What club wants a manager that is unable to stop the rot, many other managers have been in the same boat and manage the stem the tide of bad results, Redknapp did not.

3) Loyalty

Much has been made of Redknapp desire to manage England and that any manager would want to take such a position, but how many managers are facing jail time over tax evasion and have their club support them through thick and thin? Not many, Spurs showed tremendous loyalty to Harry Redknapp but when the club expected it in return, Redknapp was found wanting and that lack of loyalty crucially undermined Tottenham’s season, the facts speak for themselves on this matter, one just has to look at the points gained between Capello resigning and Hodgson taking the job, in fact 10 points from 12 were gained after Hodgson took the job, that says it all.

4) Hypocritical statements

Redknapp said time and time again that the England job did not effect the players, he continuously said that professional players do not get effected by this, so lets look at two crucial statements from Redknapp

April: “I don’t think [the England speculation] affected the players at all, we’ve only had one bad game against Norwich, we’ve been really unlucky”

June: “I’ve one year left on my contract, I think the club should hurry up and make the offer because players will be unsettled if they don’t know if the manager will be there in a years time”

So, when it comes to Redknapp possibly leaving within months to take the England job it does not effect the players, but when it comes to one year left on his own contract it does effect the players, it hardly needs Socrates to work out that one out does it?

5) Great transfer wheeler dealer

One just has to look at the main business done in January to fully comprehend how awful Redknapp can be when it comes to transfer deals and we will not even get in to his time at Portsmouth.

Out

Sebastien Bassong
Vedran Corluka
Steven Pienaar

In
Louis Saha
Ryan Nelson

So, Tottenham let go three internationals that would have provided much needed depth and brought in two players in their mid thirties on loan, this wheeling and dealing played a pivotal role in Tottenham’s lack of depth when injuries started to occur at the business end of the season.

One may argue that Daniel Levy was behind this, they may be right, but any top manager, Ferguson and Wenger just to name two, would have gone mental at not being allowed to bring players in, dare I say they would have resigned, Redknapp did nothing and anyway, it is generally accepted that Redknapp made these decisions and not Levy.

Conclusion

Redknapp did take Spurs from 2nd bottom in to a Champions League team, however they were originally in a false position, were already an established top six team and as stated above, taking Spurs from 2nd bottom was not that great an achievement, any half decent manager could have done that, they were already an established top six team under Jol.

Redknapp oversaw a spectacular collapse that he was unable to stem, his transfer dealings were appalling, he showed no loyalty to a club that stood by him in his darkest hour, he claimed that the players were not effected by the England saga but would be by his lack of long term contract and the blunt truth is that Spurs were no longer progressing under Harry Redknapp, they were in effect going backwards and Daniel Levy did the right thing in getting rid of Harry Redknapp before it was too late.

Finally, one only has to look at Harry Redknapp’s career success to see that he is more hype than substance, one trophy in his entire career is not the stuff of legends and if Spurs want to push on and they have the players to do that, then they need a manager that can do that and Redknapp clearly could not.[/h]
 
I'm not going to keep putting my point of view across as you all seem to have your minds made up, this spectacular collapse as it has been put, was dropping from third place to fourth. Disastrous.
 
I agree, Denmark are an example, not got great individuals but are still a very good team and they play out from the back, try and keep the ball no matter who they are against, why can't we do that? Not only this but England does have some great individual players, Gerrard, Rooney, Cole, Hart (at this Euro's).


The point is, in this tournament we do not have the players really picked. And its about the team not the individual. Holland have just shown that.

Denmark have the players in midfield to do that.

To say we should be getting out of this group is arrogant.
 
The point is, in this tournament we do not have the players really picked. And its about the team not the individual. Holland have just shown that.

Denmark have the players in midfield to do that.

To say we should be getting out of this group is arrogant.

Not at all arrogant, it is called having some expectation, the team we have is better than Sweden's and better than Ukraine's. Shall I just say we are **** and should be bottom of the group with 0 points because our squad is weaker? I do not see how you think Ukraine and Sweden are better than us and why you like the negativity Hodgson employs in his gameplan.
 
Not at all arrogant, it is called having some expectation, the team we have is better than Sweden's and better than Ukraine's. Shall I just say we are **** and should be bottom of the group with 0 points because our squad is weaker? I do not see how you think Ukraine and Sweden are better than us and why you like the negativity Hodgson employs in his gameplan.
No, you have better individuals. We shall see if you have better team.
 
Not at all arrogant, it is called having some expectation, the team we have is better than Sweden's and better than Ukraine's. Shall I just say we are **** and should be bottom of the group with 0 points because our squad is weaker? I do not see how you think Ukraine and Sweden are better than us and why you like the negativity Hodgson employs in his gameplan.

Didnt say that either, so dont put words in my mouth. It's not about being better on paper. Its not about ****** negativity, its about what we have in the squad. If you cant spot the difference, then this is a pointless convo. After all this has all been covered ad naseum. Both sides have a more cohesive centre of the park.
 
Didnt say that either, so dont put words in my mouth. It's not about being better on paper. Its not about ****** negativity, its about what we have in the squad. If you cant spot the difference, then this is a pointless convo. After all this has all been covered ad naseum. Both sides have a more cohesive centre of the park.

I said "I do not see how you think Ukraine and Sweden are better" because I assumed you thought they were, judging by how you said I am arrogant for expecting us to get through this group.
 
I said "I do not see how you think Ukraine and Sweden are better" because I assumed you thought they were, judging by how you said I am arrogant for expecting us to get through this group.

Because they are on a par with what we have out there right now, both have solid midfields, and a lethal talismanic forward. It is a balanced group, therefore there is no "should get through".
 
Not at all arrogant, it is called having some expectation, the team we have is better than Sweden's and better than Ukraine's. Shall I just say we are **** and should be bottom of the group with 0 points because our squad is weaker? I do not see how you think Ukraine and Sweden are better than us and why you like the negativity Hodgson employs in his gameplan.

Our team, on paper, had better players than Sweden in 2008, but they were at the Euros while we at home. In 2006, they were the only team to take points off us in the group stage of the world cup, in 2004 we were both knocked out at the quarter final stage. In 2010 they failed to qualify, so in recent history they have matched us almost perfectly, your dismissive attitude towards them is arrogant, ignorant and uninformed. Just because on paper we have the better and more reputable players gives us no intrinsic right to beat them; just like Holland, with an attack brimming of world class players have no right to beat Denmark. The sooner the nation as a whole stops expecting to waltz past the smaller nations just because we're England, the better we'll be for it.
 
Because they are on a par with what we have out there right now, both have solid midfields, and a lethal talismanic forward. It is a balanced group, therefore there is no "should get through".

Yes, which partly comes down to Hodgson's negativity, picking Barry over Carrick, making the squad completely wrong. Downing over Adam Johnson, Phil Jones over Micah Richards, Andy Carroll over Peter Crouch.
 
Yes, which partly comes down to Hodgson's negativity, picking Barry over Carrick, making the squad completely wrong. Downing over Adam Johnson, Phil Jones over Micah Richards, Andy Carroll over Peter Crouch.

Only Carrick helps here. Rather organisation than tactical anarchy. We can build from a solid defence.
 
Our team, on paper, had better players than Sweden in 2008, but they were at the Euros while we at home. In 2006, they were the only team to take points off us in the group stage of the world cup, in 2004 we were both knocked out at the quarter final stage. In 2010 they failed to qualify, so in recent history they have matched us almost perfectly, your dismissive attitude towards them is arrogant, ignorant and uninformed. Just because on paper we have the better and more reputable players gives us no intrinsic right to beat them; just like Holland, with an attack brimming of world class players have no right to beat Denmark. The sooner the nation as a whole stops expecting to waltz past the smaller nations just because we're England, the better we'll be for it.

Not dismissive or arrogant, I think we can beat them, what the **** is wrong with that, how does it make me any of those things you accused me of? I have seen them against Ukraine, I know they have a good record against us, but against Ukraine they looked extremely ordinary and their defence is not the best, I am aware of their threat but I do not understand how me thinking we should win against them tomorrow is being arrogant, it is an opinion.
 
Not dismissive or arrogant, I think we can beat them, what the **** is wrong with that, how does it make me any of those things you accused me of? I have seen them against Ukraine, I know they have a good record against us, but against Ukraine they looked extremely ordinary and their defence is not the best, I am aware of their threat but I do not understand how me thinking we should win against them tomorrow is being arrogant, it is an opinion.

Calling it a disgrace not to get out of the group, and calling them poor is arrogant.
 
Not dismissive or arrogant, I think we can beat them, what the **** is wrong with that, how does it make me any of those things you accused me of? I have seen them against Ukraine, I know they have a good record against us, but against Ukraine they looked extremely ordinary and their defence is not the best, I am aware of their threat but I do not understand how me thinking we should win against them tomorrow is being arrogant, it is an opinion.

No it is not an achievement to get out of this group, we are England, we have better players than Sweden and Ukraine who are pretty poor sides.

But seriously, why should England not be beating teams like these, not getting out of our group would be a disgrace.

Because for the past 8 years of international tournaments they have been on an almost equitable footing with us, so why should we be beating them? They match us, you have nothing to prove that they are worst than us, only your subjective opinion. What their team has ACTUALLY done disagrees with you.

I stopped playing football on paper a long time ago, England have had a great side on paper for 10 years, where did it get us? Teams that are inferior to us on paper have outperformed us time and time again. That is why I take none of these games for granted.
 
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