What to do if you just can't win

[Treaders]

i thought everybody moaned that the game wasnt real enough!
must say the tactical side of the game is immense,
im struggling to get it right, lke im sure thousends of others.
but i admit using ths site helps alot. especially as the people who are getting right share there idea's
so keep posting them as im willing to learn.

 

[iNickStuff]

You were talking about Chelsea vs United, in which case the reason United won was because of a terrible decision to send Torres off and an offside goal given.

Manchester United were dominant for most of the game up until those decisions. Moreover, the poor officiating is not the singular reason as to why United came away with victory.

 

[Jake]

On a slightly different note,

It happens in real life too.

 

[dstar2010]

On a slightly different note,

It happens in real life too.

Also Xavi made a massive mistake to let the ball through for the second goal, omg defenders mess up IRL too, anytime you lose a game you have dominated , look at that picture and think "hey, at least i didn't lose to celtic with the worlds best player in my team".

 

[Willem90]

do you guys use the instruction on opposition players function? I let my assistant do this who has high tactical and tactical knowledge.

 

[GodCubed]

do you guys use the instruction on opposition players function? I let my assistant do this who has high tactical and tactical knowledge.

I don't usually unless I'm seeking to be the reactive side rather than the progressive one.

 

[ajt09]

I do it myself because I'm a power hungry ***** lol. Tell you one thing aswell, you REALLY have to perservere a lot more when things go **** up. Was top without a loss after 7 games with Blackburn. Lost 4 on the bounce, knocked out of league cup by Spurs 1-0 in 89th minute (hate Defoe btw), and now 1st week of November, 15 games in, undefeated in 5 and level with Leicester (playoff place) on goal difference.

Shows just how important it is to have a ready made tactic and get the instructions absolutely bang on.

 

[RiotAct]

@Jake
I usually read your post with enthusiasm as you have skills i can learn from (as Raikan too).

I know it's not your intention, but i think your tone is to rough in this call-out!
Not everyone have time/skills/interest/know-how etc. to be as detailed for every match as some of you.
I agree people should not cry about - wait till the fix and try the challenge meanwhile!

But FM is not just for nerds spending years learning! I play fm for fun (it's a computer game !!) but still trying to get better (most of all by reading tips and post by people like you and Raikan!) But just because i dont have same preferences and knowledge as you, i shouldent just '**** off' and settle with the FMC - yes the tactic motor would fit lot of the whiners much better, but there is also minus a thousands features (which make the game more fun for a lot of players!)

Sorry my language - i'm not english!

 

[endreab]

I have to disagree with some of the things that has been said here. For 1 and a half season i`ve used the same tactic every single game without looking at the opponents tactic. Zero changes have been made. I won the league with Napoli, losing only one game, in season 2 im currently unbeaten, with a 12 point lead after 25 matches.

My point is that you can still use the same tactic without changes, and have success. The tactic:

View attachment 282431

 

[Kris]

I think the consumer is entitled to moan and complain. I imagine a large number of those with grievances are users who have enjoyed relative success over the years through careful and well thought out tactics, who are now finding that previous methods are no longer working.

At the end of the day, this is still a management simulation & no matter how 'realistic' it may be (and I do feel that it was and is as REAL as it can be) it's still a computer game & we play games for fun and enjoyment.

While FMC is an excellent alternative for those who don't wish to consider wind speed or if they can play their silky soccer at the Britannia on a wet Wednesday evening & want to play the game for what it is, a simulation! There isn't many options available and you are limited to three (full) nations. I for one like to load a selection of league's from all over & due to the inability to do that, sticking with the career mode, which doesn't help with their already built up anger. Nobody plays a computer game to lose or do terribly.

If you are paying for a product, any product, you expect it to work properly. I do think that SI need to work harder to avoid these bugs. It seems like every year, we don't get full enjoyment until after the new year.

I also think their are an increasing number of members on the SI forums and more scattered throughout the community who look their noses up on those that are struggling. Taking a pretentious attitude because they've read a few articles on Zonal Marking & read through Inverting the Pyramid. Instead of showing the nose up that others aren't as superior as you, why not offer a helping hand without an attitude?

It's one thing telling your players to focus passing down the flanks, playing short passing with a quick tempo by pressing the correct button/slider - it's another trying gain the attention of a group of people & put across your idea's in person. Anyone who has managed at any level will appreciate that.

I think it's great that now more than ever you can exploit the young left back of a squad by firing Eden Hazard on him & talking about him in the media, or acting like the next Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho in press conferences or even doing the Harry Redknapp by unsettling a player you wish to buy.

I love FM, always have and I'm sure I always will. It's a great game which I waste countless hours of my life playing & I appreciate the efforts put into the game & while there are some right nuggets posting on here, I feel that some genuine points are overlooked because of that.

 

[Mike.]

I think the consumer is entitled to moan and complain. I imagine a large number of those with grievances are users who have enjoyed relative success over the years through careful and well thought out tactics, who are now finding that previous methods are no longer working.

At the end of the day, this is still a management simulation & no matter how 'realistic' it may be (and I do feel that it was and is as REAL as it can be) it's still a computer game & we play games for fun and enjoyment.

While FMC is an excellent alternative for those who don't wish to consider wind speed or if they can play their silky soccer at the Britannia on a wet Wednesday evening & want to play the game for what it is, a simulation! There isn't many options available and you are limited to three (full) nations. I for one like to load a selection of league's from all over & due to the inability to do that, sticking with the career mode, which doesn't help with their already built up anger. Nobody plays a computer game to lose or do terribly.

If you are paying for a product, any product, you expect it to work properly. I do think that SI need to work harder to avoid these bugs. It seems like every year, we don't get full enjoyment until after the new year.

I also think their are an increasing number of members on the SI forums and more scattered throughout the community who look their noses up on those that are struggling. Taking a pretentious attitude because they've read a few articles on Zonal Marking & read through Inverting the Pyramid. Instead of showing the nose up that others aren't as superior as you, why not offer a helping hand without an attitude?

It's one thing telling your players to focus passing down the flanks, playing short passing with a quick tempo by pressing the correct button/slider - it's another trying gain the attention of a group of people & put across your idea's in person. Anyone who has managed at any level will appreciate that.

I think it's great that now more than ever you can exploit the young left back of a squad by firing Eden Hazard on him & talking about him in the media, or acting like the next Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho in press conferences or even doing the Harry Redknapp by unsettling a player you wish to buy.

I love FM, always have and I'm sure I always will. It's a great game which I waste countless hours of my life playing & I appreciate the efforts put into the game & while there are some right nuggets posting on here, I feel that some genuine points are overlooked because of that.

To be fair Kris, they have always try to aim for the most realistic version of football, so it was always going to get harder. I personally have no interest in FMC but I believe it was an absolutely vital addition to the game for that section of the community who dont want that.

I think the consumer is entitled to moan and complain. I imagine a large number of those with grievances are users who have enjoyed relative success over the years through careful and well thought out tactics, who are now finding that previous methods are no longer working.

If these issues are down to the flaws in the ME, thats one thing, and totally justified. But if its down to the fact the ME and AI has evolved ( despite its numerous flaws, its already a better shape of football than the FM12 engine, **** that didnt even simulate 90 minutes) then I'm not sure they have that much of a leg to complain on, without trying to be harsh. At the end of the day yes its a game, but its closer to a sim that anything and it will be demanding, like any sim. Having said that it really does need a version of TT and F to make it more accessible, the manual is a joke.

If you are paying for a product, any product, you expect it to work properly. I do think that SI need to work harder to avoid these bugs. It seems like every year, we don't get full enjoyment until after the new year.

Partly disagree, many people do enjoy it from the start. Of course its better by the new year, it's had patches. SI would be doing something very wrong if it was worse by the new year. And in fairness considering the scope of the game and the relative size of the team they do pretty well, certainly better than many powerhouse labels (EA/DICE and battlefield 3 I'm looking at you, jackoffs)

I also think their are an increasing number of members on the SI forums and more scattered throughout the community who look their noses up on those that are struggling. Taking a pretentious attitude because they've read a few articles on Zonal Marking & read through Inverting the Pyramid. Instead of showing the nose up that others aren't as superior as you, why not offer a helping hand without an attitude?

Absolutely agree, but this also goes both ways. People dont like to be wrong, especially those who have played for a long time, they assume that they can't be bad at it, and therefore it must be the games fault. And if you point out that it might not be the case, you get labelled a fanboy etc. There is a poor attitude through a large amount of the community on all sides in all honesty, its quite depressing, everything is a battleground rather than a discussion.

I love FM, always have and I'm sure I always will. It's a great game which I waste countless hours of my life playing & I appreciate the efforts put into the game & while there are some right nuggets posting on here, I feel that some genuine points are overlooked because of that.

Well said. For me this is why on this forum I try and push for constructive thoughts, after all constructive criticism is the single best way to drive this series forward.

 

[fabregas2]

I can't find the will to play this game anymore. Is scout the other team and blah blah yet my team just refuses to score. Most games are even stats wise, we get lots of chances when we decide not to shoot from long range but just no goals. Other teams have no problem scoring though, I suppose that's because I didn't say their keeper is a weak link before the match.

 

[Jake]

@Jake
I usually read your post with enthusiasm as you have skills i can learn from (as Raikan too).

I know it's not your intention, but i think your tone is to rough in this call-out!
Not everyone have time/skills/interest/know-how etc. to be as detailed for every match as some of you.
I agree people should not cry about - wait till the fix and try the challenge meanwhile!

But FM is not just for nerds spending years learning! I play fm for fun (it's a computer game !!) but still trying to get better (most of all by reading tips and post by people like you and Raikan!) But just because i dont have same preferences and knowledge as you, i shouldent just '**** off' and settle with the FMC - yes the tactic motor would fit lot of the whiners much better, but there is also minus a thousands features (which make the game more fun for a lot of players!)

Sorry my language - i'm not english!

I'm not trying to sound 'rough' in my tone to the majority of people. But there are some real moaners out there who need a good slap.

Also not sure i said '**** off' anywhere, but i take your points, and i agree with them, if you are willing to learn/try new things, the community is absolutely here to help you. And FMC is not the answer for most, listening, learning and trying new things is. People that don't want to take on the advice given can play FMC or get in their time portal and play FM05, it's basically the same.

Unfortunately many people are spitting the dummy before any attempt to self improve, these are people that my post is aimed at.

I have never and will never refuse to help someone who is willing to listen, and broaden their horizons.

 

[viksenpai]

Ok, guys, I've finally bought the game and will start playing it soon. Before I do, I have to ask you a question though...

I've read a lot about FM13 on this forum, various opinions as with everything, etc. I need an objective opinion about the game's realisticness though. Are the ME and player interaction realistic this time?
Because I find it ridiculous to spend time talking to players about their form, carefully planning specific changes to a tactic based on the weather, opposition players and tactic and thinking about what the best team-talk would be, if they just don't matter that much... As in previous FMs. I don't want this to sound like a rant, I loved FM12, I'd love this one even better if those things actually had more influence on the outcome of a match than, like, 5%. Again, not a rant, but on the previous manager there were cookie-cutter tactics, 3-4 types of team talks that were effective all of the time and almost no reason to interact personally with a player. Not to mention weather... That wasn't at all influential. So, should one spend time fine-tuning everything as in real life or is it pointless once again?

Sorry if this has been answered, but the opinions are really controversial and I really can't sift out the rants from the objective opinions. Furthermore the information that would answer my question is most probably scattered around and I really don't feel like reading hundreds of posts when I could ask a precise question. I hope you find that reasonable.

 

[matranti]

Ok, guys, I've finally bought the game and will start playing it soon. Before I do, I have to ask you a question though...

I've read a lot about FM13 on this forum, various opinions as with everything, etc. I need an objective opinion about the game's realisticness though. Are the ME and player interaction realistic this time?
Because I find it ridiculous to spend time talking to players about their form, carefully planning specific changes to a tactic based on the weather, opposition players and tactic and thinking about what the best team-talk would be, if they just don't matter that much... As in previous FMs. I don't want this to sound like a rant, I loved FM12, I'd love this one even better if those things actually had more influence on the outcome of a match than, like, 5%. Again, not a rant, but on the previous manager there were cookie-cutter tactics, 3-4 types of team talks that were effective all of the time and almost no reason to interact personally with a player. Not to mention weather... That wasn't at all influential. So, should one spend time fine-tuning everything as in real life or is it pointless once again?

Sorry if this has been answered, but the opinions are really controversial and I really can't sift out the rants from the objective opinions. Furthermore the information that would answer my question is most probably scattered around and I really don't feel like reading hundreds of posts when I could ask a precise question. I hope you find that reasonable.

It is much better and I feel the majority of the moans are because everyone is accustomed to the old, 'buy 11 players, win the league' mentality and that is not through the fault of the user, it's just the way the game was able to be manipulated in previous versions.

Team-talks are much more difficult and you do have to garner the support of you're players before they'll respond to you. (something as simple as selecting sunday league footballer for past experience when choosing a premier league club has a negative affect as it would IRL).

The match engine does not have as many bugs as posts within this forum would have you believe. I know people download tactics but it simply won't work on this version, you need to create 3 solid tactics for you're own team and individual players needs. Downloading goalsgalore.tac isn't going to get Grimsby Town into the Premier League. Each match needs preparation and tactics inevitably need adapting to counter specific threats, for example I play zonal marking and rarely close down outside my own area unless an opposition player warrants that need.

The opposing team report is invaluable, many times I've adapted my Newcastle team (particularly away from home) to counter the opposition. The latest being Everton at Goodison Park where I moved Santon to the right and man mark and press Baines to counter the fact he was their leading assist player. It worked and we won 3 v 1.

Not too sure on the weather aspect, haven't reached the winter months but from what I read pre-release it will have an affect on teams playing a shorter passing game like Barca, Chelsea but probably favour long ball teams like Stoke.

My final point is that the training and match preparation is essential and the training interface is far more user-friendly and intuitive than previous versions.

My final, final point is that the Director of Football, Head of Youth Development and Chief Scout roles are brilliant and with the right staff you can delegate particular roles from buying and selling players (a la Daniel Levy at Spurs) to allowing your Chief Scout to look after the clubs scouting network and allow him to send the scouts around the world. Even the coaches have varying qualifications and can be sent on courses to get their B and A licences.

Overall, best version on FM by far and the most demanding in terms of immersion and detail.

Have fun

 

[WouterVW]

It is much better and I feel the majority of the moans are because everyone is accustomed to the old, 'buy 11 players, win the league' mentality and that is not through the fault of the user, it's just the way the game was able to be manipulated in previous versions.

Team-talks are much more difficult and you do have to garner the support of you're players before they'll respond to you. (something as simple as selecting sunday league footballer for past experience when choosing a premier league club has a negative affect as it would IRL).

The match engine does not have as many bugs as posts within this forum would have you believe. I know people download tactics but it simply won't work on this version, you need to create 3 solid tactics for you're own team and individual players needs. Downloading goalsgalore.tac isn't going to get Grimsby Town into the Premier League. Each match needs preparation and tactics inevitably need adapting to counter specific threats, for example I play zonal marking and rarely close down outside my own area unless an opposition player warrants that need.

The opposing team report is invaluable, many times I've adapted my Newcastle team (particularly away from home) to counter the opposition. The latest being Everton at Goodison Park where I moved Santon to the right and man mark and press Baines to counter the fact he was their leading assist player. It worked and we won 3 v 1.

Not too sure on the weather aspect, haven't reached the winter months but from what I read pre-release it will have an affect on teams playing a shorter passing game like Barca, Chelsea but probably favour long ball teams like Stoke.

My final point is that the training and match preparation is essential and the training interface is far more user-friendly and intuitive than previous versions.

My final, final point is that the Director of Football, Head of Youth Development and Chief Scout roles are brilliant and with the right staff you can delegate particular roles from buying and selling players (a la Daniel Levy at Spurs) to allowing your Chief Scout to look after the clubs scouting network and allow him to send the scouts around the world. Even the coaches have varying qualifications and can be sent on courses to get their B and A licences.

Overall, best version on FM by far and the most demanding in terms of immersion and detail.

Have fun

Very good summary if you ask me. One thing the game is perhaps lacking is one or more really comprehensive tutorials to get across the points you have just made here.
The slogan for this kind of game is pretty much: "Do you think you can do better than real-life managers? Prove it." It's nice to see that this time you can't just throw a few good players on there and make the real-life manager look like he's incompetent. (although I never did that myself) You used to also be able to just download tactics and be successful, as you said, which is nowhere near realistic. That wasn't an issue for a lot of people, but I always wanted to mess around with tactics myself and create them from my own mind. I'm interested in tactics and tactical discussions in real life and although I might not be a mastermind, I know my fair share and I'm always looking to learn. So it's good to see this becoming a more prominent part of the game (as you would actually expect from a football manager game).
Too bad there are still bugs that do pop up too often, you have to admit. Then again, you can sort of correct for them in your tactics, which isn't ideal and subtracts from the realism slightly but if they get fixed, it'll definitely be the most realistic version on FM I've played so far. It'll also probably be the one I get the least far with, because of the limited amount time I have to spare and the vast amount of time needed to play it properly.

 

[matranti]

Very good summary if you ask me. One thing the game is perhaps lacking is one or more really comprehensive tutorials to get across the points you have just made here.
The slogan for this kind of game is pretty much: "Do you think you can do better than real-life managers? Prove it." It's nice to see that this time you can't just throw a few good players on there and make the real-life manager look like he's incompetent. (although I never did that myself) You used to also be able to just download tactics and be successful, as you said, which is nowhere near realistic. That wasn't an issue for a lot of people, but I always wanted to mess around with tactics myself and create them from my own mind. I'm interested in tactics and tactical discussions in real life and although I might not be a mastermind, I know my fair share and I'm always looking to learn. So it's good to see this becoming a more prominent part of the game (as you would actually expect from a football manager game).
Too bad there are still bugs that do pop up too often, you have to admit. Then again, you can sort of correct for them in your tactics, which isn't ideal and subtracts from the realism slightly but if they get fixed, it'll definitely be the most realistic version on FM I've played so far. It'll also probably be the one I get the least far with, because of the limited amount time I have to spare and the vast amount of time needed to play it properly.

I admit there are a few bugs and on occasion will cost games which is a shame but I'm sure that the next patch will eradicate that. I definitely agree with not getting that far, takes me ages to get from post-match to post-match!

 

[jamie6934]

hi folks, the tactic i use is Chelsea play with flair 2012 tactic, i've won 9 and 1 draw lost 0 scoring 43 f 8 ag try it its very good jamie

 

[LutterworthFox]

Jake

Great Post

I have to say after reading what you have to say I feel more optimistic and realistic about my chances. Ive played FM/CM for a long time and have never been an advocate of downloading other peoples tactics and finding "exploits" but ive always been able to create myself tactics that with tweaks, etc can create a decent team even with BSN clubs. But with Fm13 im at a real loss.

Every FM version ive managed to start a game where I enjoy it and even when im doing **** I feel I can turn things around, I punch the air in excitement when I score a great goal or win a game im not expecting to. But with FM13 i dont feel that.

I would love to talk you more about FM13 and get yours tips and advice on how I can make myself a better FM player/manager. I know this year its been made harder to make you think more about how you play the game i.e roles, formations, training etc but I really dont know where to start. I suppose im one of the old guard that only know how to play the game in a one dimensional way and need assistance on how to progress and evolve myself to the new game.

Ive thought about moving to FMC but I feel thats the cowards way out and id enjoy it even less that I am now. Ive never been one to give up on something but I feel ive lost my "spark" with FM13 and so much so that last night I loaded FM12 up!

So some help would be much appreciated whether thats on here or over a chat on steam, my problems are when starting a new game what to do first, when im creating a tactic what to look for in roles, for example good partnerships in roles, etc. Also ive never ever looked at scouting reports for the enxt opposition but this year I know its imperative. What do u look at so get an idea of what weaknesses I can exploit, etc? Also when im on a bad run (which always happens) how I can turn things around.

Sorry for the long post, im never one for moaning so im trying to keep myself up beat that I can turn things around, you wouldnt beleive how many games ive started and failed after 1 season or less! Maybe I shouldnt give up so easily but I have the patience of a very very impatient person!

 

[Brian]

A great feature that is often overlooked in tactics as far as I can see is the fact you can have 3 tactics being trained at any one time and you can quickly change between the 3 base tactics. This is great for tweaking in games as you can have 3 base tactics and then tweak any one of them slightly for upcoming games.