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iNickStuff
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He doesn't do it often enough for it to be justified. Example is Peter Crouch, as he rarely does it now.
---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------
The tactic of Borussia Dortmund for the 2010-11 season has now been attached and can be found in the original article on page 15.
Here.
I've gone through a few pages (the first ones and the last one) of this topic, and it looks really helpful. It's been a while since I played FM, and all I remember really is how the attributes affect each other. I'm already starting to realize how mentality, closing down and creating freedom affects the game play, and to me, understanding that makes the game much more fun. I don't have any questions or opinions yet really, since I haven't read the whole topic, but I'll be back ;-)
You've done a great job with this topic, iNickStuff, and the tactical discussions in here is very helpful indeed. Cheers!
You've done a great job with this topic, iNickStuff, and the tactical discussions in here is very helpful indeed. Cheers!
I'm new to this forum and the only reason I joined was because of this thread, there is some great writing in it... anyway, on another forum that's football related we been talking about football tactics from a managers stand point and everything that has anything remotely related to it even if it has nothing sport but say the way a business leaders organises it employees within company, compared to the way football manager organises it employees within the team. That said the one manager who I respect the most from a tactical stand point would be Arrigo Sacchi.
His Milan played a very high line and very narrow. Sacchi Milan was moving, they looked like the migration of a people. The players move up and down not only together but by staying at the same distance of each other, a metre away from each other - always pressing the opponents in their own half by holding his defence at the level of the half line. The team is very compact, tight and close with only one forward and a lot of versatile players. When they attacked they did with purpose, on average it only took 4 passes to get the ball to Van Basten in a dangerous areas where he could play a attacking through on goal, cross the ball into the box for a team mate or get a shot of goal himself... this what I came up with..
I'm playing with a more 'complete' forward up front and a natural playmaker in the number ten role. On either side of my player in the number ten role, I have an inside forward on one side and a winger on the other. Behind them a defensive midfielder/deep lying playmaker and a ball winning midfielder. I have two ball playing center backs and two fullbacks -to the support the attack and over lap the inside forward, on the left I have an attacking fullback. I'm setting up in a 4-2-3-1.
His Milan played a very high line and very narrow. Sacchi Milan was moving, they looked like the migration of a people. The players move up and down not only together but by staying at the same distance of each other, a metre away from each other - always pressing the opponents in their own half by holding his defence at the level of the half line. The team is very compact, tight and close with only one forward and a lot of versatile players. When they attacked they did with purpose, on average it only took 4 passes to get the ball to Van Basten in a dangerous areas where he could play a attacking through on goal, cross the ball into the box for a team mate or get a shot of goal himself... this what I came up with..
I'm playing with a more 'complete' forward up front and a natural playmaker in the number ten role. On either side of my player in the number ten role, I have an inside forward on one side and a winger on the other. Behind them a defensive midfielder/deep lying playmaker and a ball winning midfielder. I have two ball playing center backs and two fullbacks -to the support the attack and over lap the inside forward, on the left I have an attacking fullback. I'm setting up in a 4-2-3-1.
Striker122
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Im playing a 4-4-2 with a slightly edited version of the counter attack posted on this thread im currently finding it difficult for my forwards to connect with the crosses typically in games i get around 15 crosses into the box and dispite my wingers having good crossing ability they rarley find a player in my last game i had 25 crosses (some of them were corners) and only 3 of them connected the rest were either blocked or intercepted, i typically get about 10-12 shots per game if i was able to be more successfull with my crosses i expect id get closer to 20
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iNickStuff
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Thank you for your positive comments.
I'm new to this forum and the only reason I joined was because of this thread, there is some great writing in it... anyway, on another forum that's football related we been talking about football tactics from a managers stand point and everything that has anything remotely related to it even if it has nothing sport but say the way a business leaders organises it employees within company, compared to the way football manager organises it employees within the team. That said the one manager who I respect the most from a tactical stand point would be Arrigo Sacchi.
His Milan played a very high line and very narrow. Sacchi Milan was moving, they looked like the migration of a people. The players move up and down not only together but by staying at the same distance of each other, a metre away from each other - always pressing the opponents in their own half by holding his defence at the level of the half line. The team is very compact, tight and close with only one forward and a lot of versatile players. When they attacked they did with purpose, on average it only took 4 passes to get the ball to Van Basten in a dangerous areas where he could play a attacking through on goal, cross the ball into the box for a team mate or get a shot of goal himself... this what I came up with..
I'm playing with a more 'complete' forward up front and a natural playmaker in the number ten role. On either side of my player in the number ten role, I have an inside forward on one side and a winger on the other. Behind them a defensive midfielder/deep lying playmaker and a ball winning midfielder. I have two ball playing center backs and two fullbacks -to the support the attack and over lap the inside forward, on the left I have an attacking fullback. I'm setting up in a 4-2-3-1.
I agree, Sacchi's ethics with Milan achieved high success and was a great thing to watch - in spite of not being around to watch it live. And fair enough, you seem to have it quite well with your A.C. Milan tactic.
Play wider width? Usually if you play wider, the wingers are more involved and they can achieve higher crossing rates. Also, crossing from the byline and to both 'Target Man' and 'Far Post' respectively helps.
gunnerjames
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Nick could you give some help with setting up Destroyer/Passer/Combo with Song, Wilshere and Fabregas. I am playing as Arsenal with a 433 (451) and I have not got a clue how to set it up. I have read about having Song as a defensive midfielder - defend, wilshere - central midfielder - support and fabregas advance playmaker - attack. I am not sure so if you can offer any advice I would be grateful
That could work, though I'd have Song as an Anchor Man and Wilshere possibly as a DLP - support. Personal preference really, though, you seem to have it about right.
chrismonc87
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Hi
I use rooney as modern 2nd striker and hes not scoreing. is has 3 goals and 4 assists after 10 games all he does is go for long shots and misses. what can i do
chris
I use rooney as modern 2nd striker and hes not scoreing. is has 3 goals and 4 assists after 10 games all he does is go for long shots and misses. what can i do
chris
im in 4th season, managed to get tevez, rooney and carroll in the same side in a 4-3-3.
Target man, 2 deep lying forwards either side. Obv carroll as target man, wierdly if you look at most of the goals, carroll nods the ball down to tevez or rooney, then all three of them tend to quick pass in a triangle before one shoots.
Works well, 4 games left, Carroll has 33 goals, 10 assists, Tevez 22/18 and rooney has been on fire with only 15 goals but 34 assists. He even beat my main set-piece taker on assists.
Target man, 2 deep lying forwards either side. Obv carroll as target man, wierdly if you look at most of the goals, carroll nods the ball down to tevez or rooney, then all three of them tend to quick pass in a triangle before one shoots.
Works well, 4 games left, Carroll has 33 goals, 10 assists, Tevez 22/18 and rooney has been on fire with only 15 goals but 34 assists. He even beat my main set-piece taker on assists.
I
iNickStuff
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I can only echo what GC has said, he seems to have put it in a similar way to me. Defensive Midfielder (Defend), Central Midfielder (Support) is another suggestion.
Not play him in that role? He's not specifically attributed to the 'modern Second Striker role, but more to the 'modern Complete Forward role. The SS role is for the likes of Tim Cahill, Clint Dempsey, Andrey Arshavin, Robbie Keane, Jermain Defoe .. I could name more but you should be getting the picture now. They are not really full-on strikers at their club, nor as important as others at some point, but act as second strikers at times, behind someone else.
Ok, that sounds promising and good results. However, such things or similar belong in this thread.
chrismonc87
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sorry nick named wrong one ment modern complete forward. was 1/2 asleep when i posted last
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iNickStuff
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Give him time, it will work eventually. If not, then just edit his sliders and make him more creative, roam into the channels and a little less defensive. Don't stick to the same thing all along.
Hello 'iNickStuff', firstly I just want to compliment you on a great thread! It's your fault you kept me awake for longer than I wanted reading this thread and testing out the Target ST Role and I loved seeing Andy Carroll do what I wanted him to do (I had him in the Target Man - Support role with restricted long shots but he wasn't producing much.
I was wondering if you could help me with one thing. I've been trying for a while to start a save with Liverpool (my favourite team) but I always stop playing and go back to smaller teams (My only long-term saves in FM 11 are with AFC Wimbledon and W.B.A).
I always like to play possession football, it doesn't matter what team I use they play that from the day I take over the club and they manage to do so. From CM 01/02 to FM 10 I always had tactics without wingers in a 4-4-2 diamond tactic because then I just looked at AML & AMR as more attacking wingers but now I usually use a 4-5-1/4-3-3 with either a DMC or AMC and inside forwards.
Before I changed the Target Man sliders for Andy Carroll I had Luis Suarez in either the AML or AMR role but I go in Eden Hazard and put Suarez to the AMR position and Suarez doesn't score anymore. I wanted to ask you what kind of tactic you could recommend to me by using both Suarez and Carrol, I'm only at 1st September and I don't care if I have to start over and buy new players in my team. I've been thinking about a 4-3-3 with 3 forwards instead of 1 forward and 2 inside forwards (I usually don't use a Target ST but I love what he does).
So I'm going to try and get out my question quickly, I always write to much. I was wondering if you could recommend to me a tactic where my team can play possession football but still use Andy Carroll as the Target ST and letting him open up spaces, he doesn't have to score 20+ goals a season or make 20+ assists a season as long as he opens up spaces for my other attacking players. I realize that using one forward as a Target ST - Support with two inside forwards might not always be the best idea but I'd like to get some of your ideas and work something out from that.
Thanks in advance mate!
I was wondering if you could help me with one thing. I've been trying for a while to start a save with Liverpool (my favourite team) but I always stop playing and go back to smaller teams (My only long-term saves in FM 11 are with AFC Wimbledon and W.B.A).
I always like to play possession football, it doesn't matter what team I use they play that from the day I take over the club and they manage to do so. From CM 01/02 to FM 10 I always had tactics without wingers in a 4-4-2 diamond tactic because then I just looked at AML & AMR as more attacking wingers but now I usually use a 4-5-1/4-3-3 with either a DMC or AMC and inside forwards.
Before I changed the Target Man sliders for Andy Carroll I had Luis Suarez in either the AML or AMR role but I go in Eden Hazard and put Suarez to the AMR position and Suarez doesn't score anymore. I wanted to ask you what kind of tactic you could recommend to me by using both Suarez and Carrol, I'm only at 1st September and I don't care if I have to start over and buy new players in my team. I've been thinking about a 4-3-3 with 3 forwards instead of 1 forward and 2 inside forwards (I usually don't use a Target ST but I love what he does).
So I'm going to try and get out my question quickly, I always write to much. I was wondering if you could recommend to me a tactic where my team can play possession football but still use Andy Carroll as the Target ST and letting him open up spaces, he doesn't have to score 20+ goals a season or make 20+ assists a season as long as he opens up spaces for my other attacking players. I realize that using one forward as a Target ST - Support with two inside forwards might not always be the best idea but I'd like to get some of your ideas and work something out from that.
Thanks in advance mate!
havanaclue
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Well frustrated is not the word for me right now.
I try and try to get a tactic of my own to work and fail miserably.
I'm manager of Middlesbrough and trying to play possession football style 2
Tactic
View attachment 172277
Goalkeeper - defend
LB, RB Fullback support (man mark + tight)
DC Defend
DMCR DM defend
DMCL Deep play defend
AML/AMR Winger att
AMC Trequartista (false ten)
ST Deep Forward supp (false nine)
View attachment 172279
I need advice because I don't know what to change.
I try and try to get a tactic of my own to work and fail miserably.
I'm manager of Middlesbrough and trying to play possession football style 2
Tactic
View attachment 172277
Goalkeeper - defend
LB, RB Fullback support (man mark + tight)
DC Defend
DMCR DM defend
DMCL Deep play defend
AML/AMR Winger att
AMC Trequartista (false ten)
ST Deep Forward supp (false nine)
View attachment 172279
I need advice because I don't know what to change.
First thing, set closing down to at least default, maybe to press more. You can't keep the ball too much if you allow your opponent to keep it, higher pressing allows them less space, maybe rushed decisions like long ball which is collected by your CBs etc.
Also I wouldn't use false nine/false ten combo, as it draws your AMC out of position, so he isn't available for pass. Lack of passing options may lead to your team to losing the ball quite easily. Another thing, as trequartista is automaticly your primary playmaker, they try to get the ball to him quickly. I would set another one of your DMs, the one who is more comfortable when passing and even creating chances, to be your primary playmaker. They don't get the ball forward too quickly, but make more passes between your midfielders.
1 key to possession is low mentality, as they more often pick easy pass than risky through ball. Set your DMs to low mixed or defensive mentality, also lower wingers mentality to normal.
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iNickStuff
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Well, personally, I would suggest a 4-2-3-1 - whether that be with defensive midfielders or central midfielders, it doesn't matter that much really as both can be used as primary or secondary formations in a rotational system. The 4-2-3-1 formation maintains possession, keeps direct control of the match and allows the team to basically attack whenever they feel best. Liverpool, on Football Manager, are more than capable of doing so and the players in their current crop (as they show now in real-life) under Dalglish.
It should have Andy Carroll as an Advanced Forward, but under the instructions of the 'modern Target Man, Suarez and Kuyt as wingers and either Steven Gerrard or Raul Meireles (an option nonetheless) as an attacking midfielder. Suggested roles for them are Suarez as an Inside Forward (Attack), Kuyt as a Defensive Winger or normal Winger (Both on Attack) and Raul Meireles as an Advanced Playmaker (Support) or as a Trequartista.
Then you could have Lucas and another midfielder, whoever you choose to be the 'destroyer - creator' midfield partnership that is often associated with the formation. Lucas could be a Deep-Lying Playmaker (Defend) and the other as a Ball-Winning Midfielder (Support or Defend, whichever). At the back, the usual, but would recommend one of your defenders as a Limited Defender and the other as a Ball-Playing Defender (Both on Defend duty) whilst the Full Backs are normal and play with Automatic duty.
As for the team instructions, the combinations of Fluid with Standard and Balanced with Counter help in both home and away games and against larger teams than yourself. Short passing, expressive creative freedom, mixed around with high closing down (Press More) and Default tackling would help. Zonal marking, Default crossing and Stick to Position. With Default tackling, I would suggest altering that individually so that it differs in the various thirds of the pitch. The same with Crossing. I would suggest one crosses to the Target Man (Supposedly the one with the better Crossing, Anticipation and Decisions attributes) and the other one to the Far Post. The full backs cross from deep and 'Hug the Touchline'.
I hope that's enough and you gain success from it.
Well, you're trying to play a game much different from what your team is capable of doing. It's like you're trying to play the Tiki-Taka with Sunderland. With all respect to Middlesbrough, in the game and in the first season, they cannot really play the way you are trying to play. I would suggest the following:
Instead of playing with a Fluid philosophy, change it to Balanced, so that it is not too compact and not too expansive. Whilst that, you can sometimes play with a Counter strategy, and especially when playing teams much bigger than you or away from home. You could try a disciplined stance with your team, in making the creative freedom More Disciplined, with Default closing down and maybe Default tackling. Dependent on how many fouls per game your team commits and the frequency of yellow cards to reds you get. I don't have a great clue because I have not played as Middlesbrough on FM11 to an extent that would grant me a good perspective on this.
Default crossing and Stick to Position, whilst playing a, deep defensive line, with Normal to Wide width, Normal to Slow tempo, and high Time Wasting. The player roles need changing, too. Your full backs should be on Full Back (Automatic) and not Full Back on Support. One of your defenders could be a Limited Defender, dependent on their attributes, as well as their Anticipation, Decisions and Concentration attributes. Preferrably over 12. Also, Boyd could play as a Target Man (Attack) rather than Target Man (Support) or even Advanced Forward. Ahmed Soukouna as an Inside Forward (Attack) whilst Simon *** as an Attacking Midfielder (Attack).
havanaclue
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Thanks for the feedback lads.
I had figured out that my system wasn't good for the Boro since they were absolutely **** - i got sacked.
Will start again with your tips.
Thankyou for your help again, I am really clueless at fm 11 and very much appreciate the help you have given me.
I had figured out that my system wasn't good for the Boro since they were absolutely **** - i got sacked.
Will start again with your tips.
Thankyou for your help again, I am really clueless at fm 11 and very much appreciate the help you have given me.
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iNickStuff
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Not a problem, it's what this thread is for.
havanaclue
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Too true, but some experts are 'high and mighty' and humility is a rare commodity.
I'll be back with some results soon.....
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