An [Amateur] Tactician's Chalkboard for FM11

[*Jones*]

Same for me as what Mike said.

I'm using Firefox :/

 

[iNickStuff]

Same for me as what Mike said.

I'm using Firefox :/

Still looking for a solution. May not tonight, but sometime next week maybe.

 

[ibo-cool]

Nice,well read but man you gotta to do something about the screenshots thing i can't see any of them but i can see screenshots in other threads clearly. and i don't know what to"play with my browser" to fix this.
anyway thanks

 

[iNickStuff]

Ok guys, tell me if you can see the pictures now.

 

[mvp93]

Yes Finally i can enjoy all of your articles in all there glory

Gonna re-read all of them

 

[iNickStuff]

It was weird because you can only see pictures when their albums in their profile when they are public albums, and not private.

Apologies to those who may have had to change their settings on their browser, it was my fault. :S

 

[Frank]

Release of my first article will be tomorrow, so hold tight for that!

 

[Mike]

Ok guys, tell me if you can see the pictures now.

Super mate, can see them now, cheers. Makes the article all that much better

 

[iNickStuff]

Release of my first article will be tomorrow, so hold tight for that!

Looking forward Frank.

Super mate, can see them now, cheers. Makes the article all that much better

Yeah, and I am glad you can see them now. It worked out in the end.

 

[*Jones*]

I can also see them

 

[ibo-cool]

It was weird because you can only see pictures when their albums in their profile when they are public albums, and not private.

Apologies to those who may have had to change their settings on their browser, it was my fault. :S

wohooo finally now it makes sense thanks

 

[iNickStuff]

Great. Now everyone's happy.

 

[robing9g]

great topic.
But i have question abt the second striker role, i had set my AMCR setting is u displayed in the second striker topic, and you said "Then, as you can see, was able to have his average position on the pitch close to the half-way circle and play just off the frontman. What I have been wanting to achieve since the start of this experiment."

But i cant do that, after the match i just see my AMC is still far from the position u showed.
What should I do?

 

[Frank]

Frankie's Article's #1

​

Recreating the Immenent/Hypothetical Chelsea Diamond

Introduction

Much has been made of the signing of Fernando Torres, Liverpool’s former talismanic forward, for 50 million pounds, breaking the British transfer record, previously set in the same day by former club Liverpool. It is also a suggestion that Carlo wants to re-implement the 4-1-2-1-2 formation.

As we all know, Fernando Torres is a world class performer, and on first glance, a great signing for any club, but, with his hugely inflated price tag, and lack of versatility, it causes Chelsea manager Carlo Ancelotti a few dilemma’s, in which I hope to uncover in this article. Where would this leave Anelka? How would you continue playing the 4-3-3 that has served them so well, with neither Torres or Drogba being able to fill a winger role like Anelka can on occasions. However in this article instead of attempting to progress with the 4-3-3, I will look at the options Ancelotti has and whether it would be the right option to return to the diamond, both in real life, and Football Manager.

####

Last season, we saw Ancelotti’s favoured 4-1-2-1-2 diamond system drive Chelsea at the beginning of the season, with Ashley Cole and Jose Bosingwa providing the width from full-backs which is so essiential to any diamond system.

There were many flaws to the system Ancelotti tried to implement, and they were revealed as the season progressed. Firstly, the injury to Jose Bosingwa helped nobody. It was a system which suited him down to the ground, just as he started to get his Chelsea career on track. This injury means that the width in the formation had to come from one of either Juliano Belletti, Paulo Ferrera, or centre back Branaslav Ivanovic. None of which are suited to the role, but as the season developed, we have seen Ivanovic progress as a right back, and if Ashley Cole can provide most of the width on the left, Ivanovic could be a good player in a diamond system that was not for him the first time Ancelotti tried implementing.
Also, with Ramires being brought in, plus a reserging Michael Essien, it seems Chelsea have the perfect centre midfielders to play on the right hand side of the diamond.

However, with Frank Lampard performing very average at the point of the diamond, often arriving in the box too early, and it not being a natural position for him, it leaves the main creative role free. This perhaps would be the only problem it seems if Carlo wanted to reintroduce the 4-1-2-1-2 which served him so well in Italy.

Enter Nicolas Anelka
The first game after the major signing of Fernando Torres, it seemed as if there might not be room for Nicolas Anelka, but Ancelotti sprung a tactical spurise to a lot of people , with not only the reintroduction of the diamond, but with Nicolas Anelka being the man to spearhead the diamond.
Its a role I for one didn’t think he would be able to play, but after seeing that one match at the Stadium of Light, he has convinced me, that he could prove to be a really well rounded AMC. Anelka, like Owen and Henry before him, looks to turn from a lightning quick poacher, to an offensive attacking midfielder, and it’s interesting to see how it will pan out over, for not only the rest of the season, but how it can be explored in Football Manager 2011.

The Starting XI, and how it looks in Football Manager.

Here we have the basic starting eleven that would most likely be considered the strongest that could be put out.

There are many things to be noted about this system first up;

• Where would Florent Malouda fit? The two MC positions are filled by Lampard, and probably Essien or Ramires, and it's Ramires who is very familiar with the position anyway. A place on the left hand side of the diamond or the tip, both of which he would be backup for, seem the best bet.
• Does Branaslav Ivanovic have the skills to provide width? Yes, as we have seen over the last 10 months, the Serbian has progressed into a very good right back, although, I would still favour Jose Bosingwa if fit, at providing the essential width from full-back.
• What roles would Torres and Drogba have? Whilst this is pure speculation and what I beleive should happen, Torres should be given his Advanced Forward/Poacher role that saw him smash scoring records at Anfield, while I believe Drogba, in his twilight years, be given a Deeper Role, relying on his strength, amazing long shots and overall physicality, in order to feed Torres.

Individual player tweaks.

GK : Nothing really specific here, as expected.

DR: If going for Bosingwa, I would definatley go for Wing Back(automatic), providing the support for the midfield and the width. Also, the wing play should be 'hug touchline', which will add the width that is desperatly needed in a 4-1-2-1-2.
DL: Same as above, only this time with Ashely Cole.
DC: Not much to right home about here, apart from perhaps using John Terry as a 'stopper' and David Luiz as a 'cover' perhaps, although this is generally optional.
DMC: In the Diamond, it is not only the job of the holding midfielder to break up attacks, but also to start some, and deliver the occasional killer pass. This is why the role 'deep lying playmaker' should suffice.
MC: If playing with Lampard, long shots should be upped to 'often' and Ramires 'less often/rarely'. However, both players should be box-to-box, or definatley Ramires. Lampard should also have 'arrives late' and 'gets forward' ticked.
AMC: I would go with the Trequartista role as it makes the AMC do incisive dribbles at pace, which is something Anelka or Malouda, the two whom who are best suited to the role, suit. However, it could be argued that summer signing Benayoun could be a great man for the role.
ST: The strikers role's were argued in the above section, but if using Kalou, I would use him as the Deep Lying Forward, and if Anelka happens to be filling in for a striker, the advanced forward role used for Torres would suit him better.

How This Plays Out

In the first game of testing I faced a tough Man United team. With Injuries to Drogba, Essien and David Luiz, this is how I lined up:

As you can see, Anelka filled in for Drogba, and Malouda then covered the vacant AMC position.

The game was a test of the 4-1-2-1-2, and it seemed to pass it's first test.

Here we see the diamond in action, and with that, setting up the first goal for Torres, of whom the whole diamond formation is worked to get goals out of him.

The 'overflooding' of midfield due to the diamond, and with the presence of the 'deep-lying playermaker' pushing up to support, we see the vast amount of options Mikel has to pass to. When Mikel passes, he has 5 players to pass to, and none of them are marked, due to the bamboozlement of so many bodies. The fact the number 10 (in this case substitute, Benayoun) is in the best position, is because he has manouvered himself 'between the lines', making him impossible to pick up.

Now, the AMC Benayoun has the ball, and he is the man entrusted to play the killer pass. Because of the attacking nature of this tactic, we have 2 runners behind the defence, even when the ball carrier is encroaching the 18-yard box. This stretches defences and in this case allows Benayoun to play the ball through to Torres.

The rest is food and drink for our clinical finisher like Torres, and this is the perfect worked example of why, and how the diamond can be very successful, even against the strongest teams, in this case Manchester United.

Individual Performances

Wing Backs: One of the most important components to the 4-1-2-1-2, we see that both Ashley Cole and Jose Bosingwa get 'up and down' to good effect and provide really good width for the team.

DMC: John Obi-Mikel had a fine game, and really played how I wanted to. Executing simple passes when needed, but also played 2 key passes in the build up to goals.

Ramires: Had a fantastic game, and as previously stated, seems to fit perfectly into this formation. He drew wide when needed, creating the essential width, but also tracked back well, stopping Nani and Valencia on occasions, but also popped up with two goals, from the edge of the box, as a result of persistence, and the added space created when play wasn't on his 'side' (something I will get onto later). He is one whom I think is now one of the first on the team sheet, whereas pre-doing this, I would have simply benched him.



The difference between the two strikers

As you can see Fernando Torres, (first screen), played as the advanced forward, he didn't get involved greatly in play, but sometimes created space for the AMC to run into. He was however, on the end of through balls, and neatly finished a goal (see up) and had a solid game, and done what was expected/needed.

Contrasting with the DLF for the game, Anelka, whom dropped deep, linked up with Midfield, and got involved in the build up play more. He also completed a key pass and had a solid game. Drogba should fufill this role better though.

First game done, let's see how the tactic holds up in the league.


First League Game: Away to Fulham


Here we see the 4-1-2-1-2 framework successful again, this time against a Fulham side. Although they had almost as many shots, they were fruitless efforts, and with the soliditity between the trio of Luiz-Terry-Cech, they were never going to cause the Blues many problems.


0-0 Ramires Chance(40 Minutes)
**This may look like a bunch of scribbles, but I will try to explain

As you can see, Kalou recieves the ball from Cole, and Cole sets about the overlap, taking Paintsil out of the the game with him. This then alerts the right centre back, whom will worry about the run of Kalou, as he has gotten between the lines, and therefore is already past the centre midfielders in the flat 4-4-2. The play is on the left hand side, with the two centre midfielders pre-occupied by MC (lampard) and AMC (malouda). This leaves Ramires with acres of space in the midfield, but he can't finish the move off; another worked example of the diamond in action.

(Ramires couldn't add the finish, but proved he could with his double vs. United)




Torres Goal 0-2 (85+ Minute)

Again, the move involves our deep lying forward, who in this case is Saloman Kalou, and he drifts out wide, after recieving the ball from Lampard, who prior to that, got the ball from Cole. We then see another aspect of the diamond as we see the options flood the attacking areas, with four options to pass to, and it leaves the defence helpless.

The ball is later passed to Ramires who plays the ball through to Torres who, as our advanced forward should, takes the chance well to wrap the game up 2-0.

**This Article is about forming the Diamond, and the advantages. The tactic used is still in testing, and will be released in due time if neccessary.


Conclusion
As you can see, from the 2 games shown, the diamond could be a successful way to go. In order for this tactic to be successful, the right players are needed, and I believe that Carlo Ancelotti has managed to bring in the correct players in order to utilise his old system very well with his new side. If this is the way he will approach it, I believe Chelsea have the depth, and talent to make this work.

Hopefully I've helped you out and made it interesting along the way. Any questions, don't hesistate to ask.

This article will be updated with further testing!!
[FONT=&quot]
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[GeorgeMiles6]

great stuff

 

[iNickStuff]

Really good read, just finished. You've seem to have worked the ways of which the players should move into space when attacking, and the critical involvement of both strikers.

I have added it to the OP under 'Community Contributions'.

Ace work.

 

[Mike.]

got to say, this is probably the best thread on the forum, hope more people can take the time to add more articles

 

[iNickStuff]

got to say, this is probably the best thread on the forum, hope more people can take the time to add more articles

Would be nice to have people pitching in their own and contributing, rather than just me.

The more the merrier as it currently stands.

 

[bodao]

iNickStuff,

Congratualions on your thread. Very good info! I just finished reading ALL the articles .

If you don't mind answering a question, I wonder how you would play with AC Milan. I'm in doubt on whether your definition of a Completer Forward would fit Ibrahimovic. Also the secondary striker doesn't seem to fit Robinho or Pato... So I wonder what formation and roles/duties you would use. I've tried a 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 formations with reasonable success in FM11, but I'm still not sure about a few things. I can't imagine a 4-4-2 formation such as you used in Man United working with Milan because they lack the wingers/wide midfielders.

I also have trouble using a 4-2-3-1 formation such as the one you used with Arsenal because that means Pato and Robinho are used as wingers (not they natural position). Also Milan's midfielders are usually more defensive than the formation shows (usually one or two DMFs, such as Gattuso or Van Bommel).

The 4-3-3 formation works well in FM11 but it has been discussed here that having 3 STs is not realistic, so even though I have played with this before (won Series A) I usually had Robinho as a Inside Forward in the midfield to make things more realistic. And I'm still not sure this works well, specially for possession football - I played Ibra as Trequartista and Pato as Poacher, both attacking, so my midfield had three good CMs but they were too narrowed up and that affected possesion. I usually played better with low possession (< 55), more direct passing on counter attacks.

I would be specifically interested in Ibra's role and duty, how to fit Robinho and Pato into the game, and how to set up the midfield.

Also, could you please explain how you concede so little with Arsenal with such an offensive formation? When I play formations that offensive (no DMFs, many attacking duties, no midfielder with DEF duty) I commonly concede 1 or 2 goals, even when I win. I guess you had a specific strategy for this, such as playing a deep defensive line, not having your centerbacks close down so much, and maybe having at least one midfielder and one FB with a defensive mentality... Or was it just magic?

Thanks,
Big Goat

 

[iNickStuff]

great topic.
But i have question abt the second striker role, i had set my AMCR setting is u displayed in the second striker topic, and you said "Then, as you can see, was able to have his average position on the pitch close to the half-way circle and play just off the frontman. What I have been wanting to achieve since the start of this experiment."

But i cant do that, after the match i just see my AMC is still far from the position u showed.
What should I do?

It doesn't have to be all the time. You also need to have him run from deep often to make it work. Set his mentality to a little defensive, so he drops deeper to the half-way circle, and close down nearly the whole pitch.

iNickStuff,

Congratualions on your thread. Very good info! I just finished reading ALL the articles .

If you don't mind answering a question, I wonder how you would play with AC Milan. I'm in doubt on whether your definition of a Completer Forward would fit Ibrahimovic. Also the secondary striker doesn't seem to fit Robinho or Pato... So I wonder what formation and roles/duties you would use. I've tried a 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 formations with reasonable success in FM11, but I'm still not sure about a few things. I can't imagine a 4-4-2 formation such as you used in Man United working with Milan because they lack the wingers/wide midfielders.

I also have trouble using a 4-2-3-1 formation such as the one you used with Arsenal because that means Pato and Robinho are used as wingers (not they natural position). Also Milan's midfielders are usually more defensive than the formation shows (usually one or two DMFs, such as Gattuso or Van Bommel).

The 4-3-3 formation works well in FM11 but it has been discussed here that having 3 STs is not realistic, so even though I have played with this before (won Series A) I usually had Robinho as a Inside Forward in the midfield to make things more realistic. And I'm still not sure this works well, specially for possession football - I played Ibra as Trequartista and Pato as Poacher, both attacking, so my midfield had three good CMs but they were too narrowed up and that affected possesion. I usually played better with low possession (< 55), more direct passing on counter attacks.

I would be specifically interested in Ibra's role and duty, how to fit Robinho and Pato into the game, and how to set up the midfield.

Also, could you please explain how you concede so little with Arsenal with such an offensive formation? When I play formations that offensive (no DMFs, many attacking duties, no midfielder with DEF duty) I commonly concede 1 or 2 goals, even when I win. I guess you had a specific strategy for this, such as playing a deep defensive line, not having your centerbacks close down so much, and maybe having at least one midfielder and one FB with a defensive mentality... Or was it just magic?

Thanks,
Big Goat

Let me put it like this:

For A.C. Milan, I wouldn't expect you to play the 4-2-3-1 with them, because, as you said, they lack width and they don't have a natural attacking midfielder to fill that slot. Not to mention that you'd be wasting the talent of a three-man midfield that is usually Pirlo, Gattuso and Flamini.

I would suggest using a 4-1-3-2, or a 4-1-2-1-2, with Ibrahimovic in the Complete Forward role, and Pato as a normal poacher. In honesty, Ibrahimovic isn't a player (on FM) that can play as the 'modern Centre Forward I suggested. He's better upfront on his own.

Pato, nor Robinho are 'modern Second Strikers either. Pato is suited to play off the frontman, yes, but he is very capable as an out-and-out striker. Robinho is better down the flanks, or just as an Inside Forward/Trequartista in the AMC position.

For the Arsenal representation, it was just about continually attacking, and having the opposition possess very little time to think or do anything. The mass amount of goals equates to very little from the opposition - they become deflated (in-game) after two-three goals are scored, and are severely weakened.

Plus, I play a high, pressing game, which makes it difficult to have their strikers work well and play a normal game. But don't think that I don't leak goals. In an earlier save (before the article) I played as Arsenal and lost 5-1 to Aston Villa. I tweaked it.

It just takes time, and the fluidity and goal-scoring makes up for the amount of goals conceded. Lastly, set your Match Preparation to Defensive Positioning, High workload every game if you want to not leak goals.