Attempting to replicate Dortmund's Gengenpressing

[LukeFullalove]

What match training do you recommend?

 

[AndyBday]

works great with my ac milan side. even without transfers.the football is very attractive.but i struggle with my Ukraine national team.although the squad is not that bad.

 

[manutd7182]

What match training do you recommend?

Normally have Tactics, Tactics Only during pre-season with Very High intensity. And that's so the players can get used to the new tactic as quickly as possible. I've noticed that after a season or 2, if you've been using the same tactic all the way through, the tactic would be 70-75% fluid even for pre-season; then I would use Team Cohesion or Fitness with Tactics Only at high intensity and that's only if it's fairly fluid then during pre-season.

As for during the season, I used Balanced with Attacking Movement at Average intensity.

works great with my ac milan side. even without transfers.the football is very attractive.but i struggle with my Ukraine national team.although the squad is not that bad.

Great that it's working for AC Milan mate! As for Ukraine.. hmmm, maybe some players are not suited, for example their team work and work rate. The stats I've mentioned in the first post is believed would greatly contribute positively to this tactic. But see how it goes. Hope it continues working for you anyway man! Let us know how it goes.

 

[tumppur]

I'm ready the give up! Nothing works. I've started like 4 games with Liverpool. This maybe the best tactic I've tried but still everything goes to *******! I cant believe the success some of you are having with Liverpool. Only thing I manage is s**t like this:

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Using Dortmund Gengenpressing V2

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[manutd7182]

I'm ready the give up! Nothing works. I've started like 4 games with Liverpool. This maybe the best tactic I've tried but still everything goes to *******! I cant believe the success some of you are having with Liverpool. Only thing I manage is s**t like this:

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Using Dortmund Gengenpressing V2

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Sorry man that it hasn't been working for you. Have you followed some of the tips I've given on the first post and various comments other users have commented. Have you followed your matches closely and adapt to the change of the opposition as this tactic isn't really a plug and play tactic.

 

[tumppur]

Sorry man that it hasn't been working for you. Have you followed some of the tips I've given on the first post and various comments other users have commented. Have you followed your matches closely and adapt to the change of the opposition as this tactic isn't really a plug and play tactic.

Trying to. Maybe I havent reacted well enough to counter the opposition tactics.

In the first post you say that you should have players with good work ethic (teamwork & Work rate). I pretty much always value these attributes also but how can I make this work with these (young) Liverpool attackers who have pretty lousy attributes in this departement, meaning Moses, Sturridge, Sterling. Sterling is pretty good, although not very consistent, but hadnt got those other two to perform. Especially Sturridge. I tried buying players with better teamwork and work rate but maybe just havent found the right ones. I'll just keep trying.

 

[manutd7182]

Trying to. Maybe I havent reacted well enough to counter the opposition tactics.

In the first post you say that you should have players with good work ethic (teamwork & Work rate). I pretty much always value these attributes also but how can I make this work with these (young) Liverpool attackers who have pretty lousy attributes in this departement, meaning Moses, Sturridge, Sterling. Sterling is pretty good, although not very consistent, but hadnt got those other two to perform. Especially Sturridge. I tried buying players with better teamwork and work rate but maybe just havent found the right ones. I'll just keep trying.

Well where do you play Sturridge? Moses and Sterling should perform on the wings, does Sterling have the consistency as a weakness? Players who have consistency as a weakness may have a negative impact on this tactic. I never keep players who have consistency as a weakness. See how it goes mate. What's your team? Is it a pretty much unchanged Liverpool team from when you start off?

 

[tumppur]

Well where do you play Sturridge? Moses and Sterling should perform on the wings, does Sterling have the consistency as a weakness? Players who have consistency as a weakness may have a negative impact on this tactic. I never keep players who have consistency as a weakness. See how it goes mate. What's your team? Is it a pretty much unchanged Liverpool team from when you start off?

From the post #127 you can see my team and in the lower pic is the main starting line-up I tried the tactic. The season started OK but then the downward spiral started.... Those relsuts are older. Quit that game around january because I was 9th in the league and was going to be sacked at any moment.

 

[manutd7182]

From the post #127 you can see my team and in the lower pic is the main starting line-up I tried the tactic. The season started OK but then the downward spiral started.... Those relsuts are older. Quit that game around january because I was 9th in the league and was going to be sacked at any moment.

Hmmm, did you try the Attacking version of this tactic, see if that makes the difference?

 

[LukeFullalove]

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First 2 games using the new tactic. Oh Julian. Im only in 2014 for anyone wondering. Him and meyer have come on leaps and bounds.

 

[pvtsilver]

Finally the improvements u made works amazing! The attacking version is amazing in offense. The lone striker is still struggling to find space sometimes, but that's how it works in fm 14. Only thing to improve are goals conceded because of very high d-line. Long ball to a fast striker and its a 1 on 1 situation. I thing u should either go for offside traps or push it back a little. But otherwise is great. I will post some result later in my season.

 

[manutd7182]

View attachment 454178

First 2 games using the new tactic. Oh Julian. Im only in 2014 for anyone wondering. Him and meyer have come on leaps and bounds.

Great to see Meyler and Draxler are killing it mate. Hope it goes well mate!

Finally the improvements u made works amazing! The attacking version is amazing in offense. The lone striker is still struggling to find space sometimes, but that's how it works in fm 14. Only thing to improve are goals conceded because of very high d-line. Long ball to a fast striker and its a 1 on 1 situation. I thing u should either go for offside traps or push it back a little. But otherwise is great. I will post some result later in my season.

What I've done for the striker is I've removed the instructions for him. Let it do what the **** it wants. It's shown some improvements for me. So you can try that? As to counter fast strikers, yeah trying the offside trap or retreating the line may help or even having very fast defenders would help greatly. Let us know how that goes.

 

[Belhadj]

Well five games into my Crystal Palace game. 11 points, sitting 3rd. Few things to point out.
1. My team is terrible. really other than my AMC williams which is 19 years old and Jorginho which i signed from Verona, they're all terrible. So the thing I found works was I changed the tactic to play narrower and teams are struggling to score against me. so mainly if your team is conceding a lot of goals, go narrower. It works.
2. I slightly tweaked the tactic for a very specific situation which I think you could all use. At first I just added the offside trap and it worked for the most part. But then I met Michu and he destroyed my defensive line. So a quick look at Michu and you'll see he has really high off the ball movement. That let him do whatever he wanted and my offside trap was useless since he has great off the ball movement and my defenders are generally very bad. So I decided that I'm going to try to drop deeper and leave the offside trap. It worked well and he got nothing going for the rest of the game. So now I have a tweaked versions for teams with great forwards who have good off the ball movement, in which I drop deeper and not use offside trap.
3. Last thing which is pretty clear. The tweaks for certain formations from the first post (play wider and such) I've stopped using and here's why. If I try to play wider I'll get pulled apart. And since a draw is really a good result for me I don't mind sacrificing a win using those tweaks because the risk is too high.
That's my first conclusions, but it's working very well so far. I'll keep you updated.

 

[manutd7182]

Well five games into my Crystal Palace game. 11 points, sitting 3rd. Few things to point out.
1. My team is terrible. really other than my AMC williams which is 19 years old and Jorginho which i signed from Verona, they're all terrible. So the thing I found works was I changed the tactic to play narrower and teams are struggling to score against me. so mainly if your team is conceding a lot of goals, go narrower. It works.
2. I slightly tweaked the tactic for a very specific situation which I think you could all use. At first I just added the offside trap and it worked for the most part. But then I met Michu and he destroyed my defensive line. So a quick look at Michu and you'll see he has really high off the ball movement. That let him do whatever he wanted and my offside trap was useless since he has great off the ball movement and my defenders are generally very bad. So I decided that I'm going to try to drop deeper and leave the offside trap. It worked well and he got nothing going for the rest of the game. So now I have a tweaked versions for teams with great forwards who have good off the ball movement, in which I drop deeper and not use offside trap.
3. Last thing which is pretty clear. The tweaks for certain formations from the first post (play wider and such) I've stopped using and here's why. If I try to play wider I'll get pulled apart. And since a draw is really a good result for me I don't mind sacrificing a win using those tweaks because the risk is too high.
That's my first conclusions, but it's working very well so far. I'll keep you updated.

Interesting pointers you have here mate. I guess this shows the players you have are important to make this tactic work.

1) For this point I've noticed sometimes I have to go against what I've wrote on my first post and play narrower. For example, against a 4-2-3-1 sometimes going wider against teams like Chelsea/Arsenal who play this formation may not work as sometimes their play are via the middle so if I go wide, there will be space for not just me; but for them too. So changing it to narrower often works in stopping these teams. I guess you have to see where the play is for the opposition to determine whether to play wide or play narrow. But I still believe play wide for the first 10 minutes for example, see how it goes before making changes.

2) Offside trap, interesting pointer again, I've seen a couple of people suggesting this. Yes, this may work; but I think for this year's game, make sure both of your central defenders are on the defend duty. NEVER the cover duty as covering defenders tend to hold back a bit and thus the defence line is then pulled back making the offside trap not work if you have a defender with the covering duty; that's what I've noticed. But yes, offside trap can work. What about fast defenders? I believe having fast defenders is crucial as the point of this tactic is winning the ball back high up the field and having fast defenders may counter opposing strikers with high off the ball movement and pace. But, if you don't have this sort of defenders; then I'd agree with Belhadj's point here in dropping the defence when necessary.

3) I think the certain tweaks for this formation still stands. Again, like it's been stated before, it will depend your own team and the opposition. Playing wider seems to still work for me.

 

[LukeFullalove]

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Bit OT but this tactic has helped with these. Its a bit sad but im proud of him lol

 

[rdo91]

I saw all your results and i was hoped that this was the ONE tactic who would save my FM 14
2-0 at half time, it seemed ok...
but in the end (I'm Braga):

View attachment 438678

20 shots against 5...

Well, it was the first game, let me see how it works from now on

 

[manutd7182]

View attachment 456538View attachment 456539

Bit OT but this tactic has helped with these. Its a bit sad but im proud of him lol

Haha Draxler is a quality player mate. Nice to see Draxler killing teams with this tactic. Hope it keeps up man

I saw all your results and i was hoped that this was the ONE tactic who would save my FM 14
2-0 at half time, it seemed ok...
but in the end (I'm Braga):

View attachment 456592

20 shots against 5...

Well, it was the first game, let me see how it works from now on

Ouch man. Did you follow what the opposition was doing? Make changes according to whatever your opposition to counter them and stop them from playing. Most of the time it works. Then again, there are the odd times where the ME decides to screw you over with a crazy result.

 

[rdo91]

Ouch man. Did you follow what the opposition was doing? Make changes according to whatever your opposition to counter them and stop them from playing. Most of the time it works. Then again, there are the odd times where the ME decides to screw you over with a crazy result.

Changes like if the opposition is pressing to much, press "deep defensive line", for example?

Should i use always the Counter tactic as main tactic, and changing only to the Attacking tactic if i'm having trouble to score?

 

[manutd7182]

Changes like if the opposition is pressing to much, press "deep defensive line", for example?

Should i use always the Counter tactic as main tactic, and changing only to the Attacking tactic if i'm having trouble to score?

Changes such as if the opposition changes formation. For example, if a team started with 4-4-2, you'd start off with your team to play through the middle and play wider. But if the opposition changes to a 4-4-2 diamond half way through the match, you'd tell your team to exploit the flanks as there will be space for your wingers and full backs to attack and have your team to play narrow to limit the opposition's space. That's just an example.

You can start with the Counter tactic and change to the Attacking tactic when struggling to score yes. Or you can up the tempo on the Counter tactic and then switch to Attacking if it's not working. You can use the Attacking tactic when your team is the favourite to win too.

 

[rdo91]

Ok, thanks. I'll try it

I'm in pre-season with Benfica and having lots of trouble against teams like Catania (0-0), Celta(lost 2-1 at home), Parma (won 2-1), Crystal Palace (lost 3-0 at home) and Southampton (lost 3-1). Only played well against Benfica B and Varzim, winning 5-0 both. Very bad for a team who wants to win the Portuguese League...
Most of the games i have most the opportunities, most % possession, but i end it losing.
I'm playing FM/CM since CM 01/02 and it's the first time that something like this happens to me.

EDIT:
And in the Portuguese SuperCup, I beat 4-1 FC Porto, the current champions... FM Logic 8-|