Do you Believe In God

[Snypar]

Wait that was my argument last night about something must of happen to cause the big bang to happen nothing comes from nothing


Im not discrediting the big bang theory but something/someone must of caused/created the big bang

that;s what scientist are trying to find out. the theory is the big bang a fraction of a second after the big bang. *will edits later*

 

[GodCubed]

I not even going to Dignify you Comparing Santa Claus to Religion, You know they arent the same. As do I. As does every other guy on this Forum

Actually, I agree with Joel. There's as much evidence for Jesus' deification as there is for Santa Claus existing. Both are celebrated at Christmas, both are commercialised.

 

[Raphael.]

Calling all religious people crazy would be a massive generalisation. I wouldn't include saying religion bullshit as discrimination though, some religions spout out a lot of ****, some of it true, some not.

I would say its discrimination.
Most racism is based on generalizations.

 

[Joel`]

I not even going to Dignify you Comparing Santa Claus to Religion, You know they arent the same. As do I. As does every other guy on this Forum

They're different ideas, supported by the EXACT same evidence. You cannot dismiss one idea and then accept another one based on the same fact. You're essentially saying that while you accept 2+2=4, but you reject the notion that 4-2=2. But both equations came from the same origin, so you cannot reject one and accept the other.

Explain to me why religion is an exception, because it gives humans hope, because they WANT to believe, and will look beyond logic and evidence to see what they like?

 

[BlackSamba]

They're different ideas, supported by the EXACT same evidence. You cannot dismiss one idea and then accept another one based on the same fact. You're essentially saying that while you accept 2+2=4, but you reject the notion that 4-2=2. But both equations came from the same origin, so you cannot reject one and accept the other.

Explain to me why religion is an exception, because it gives humans hope, because they WANT to believe, and will look beyond logic and evidence to see what they like?

Just wanted to point out a nice indication of the barriers we are constrained to, which apparently is because of a God.

There is a difference that people need to be clear on, a GOD in the religious sense (as in a spritual creator) and is confined to the many religions our world follow. But if we are talking Science then often GOD is used to describe the unknown creation of our universe? So in effect are we arguing against religion or the existance of a higher being?

I don't believe any religion is correct, but I can't rule out our creation from an unknown energy.

 

[Joel`]

Just wanted to point out a nice indication of the barriers we are constrained to, which apparently is because of a God.

There is a difference that people need to be clear on, a GOD in the religious sense (as in a spritual creator) and is confined to the many religions our world follow. But if we are talking Science then often GOD is used to describe the unknown creation of our universe? So in effect are we arguing against religion or the existance of a higher being?

I don't believe any religion is correct, but I can't rule out our creation from an unknown energy.

I'll never rule out an unknown creator without evidence since then I'd be doing what religion is doing, believing in something with no evidence to support it.

 

[donkarlito]

And we discussed 3-4 theories about what came before the big bang. Show me where I said the big bang was the first thing.

Thats nice from BBC
"A new theory for the origin of the Universe is intriguing astronomers with the idea that a "Big Splat" preceded the Big Bang"

M-Theory looks at 11 dimensions again i'll play devil's advocate and ask what created the 11 dimensions. You see what pattern is emerging every scientific theory you and anyone else for bring up goes back to cause and effect Yes the M-theory may describe what happened before the big bang but like I said someone will ask what cause the M-theory.
Now people who believe in Science will say something like it physics or quantum physics or something but people who are relgious will say its god. But what if god created physics so people can understand how everything works?

 

[BlackSamba]

I'll never rule out an unknown creator without evidence since then I'd be doing what religion is doing, believing in something with no evidence to support it.

Yes but a 'religion' attempts to explain it and puts fictitious history in to support it. If I believe there could be an unknown force (i say force because we have a predefined definition of a God through religion and dont know what else to describe it as) then I am not neccesarily following what religion does.

I am agnostic but do not believe in any religion.

 

[Joel`]

Thats nice from BBC
"A new theory for the origin of the Universe is intriguing astronomers with the idea that a "Big Splat" preceded the Big Bang"

M-Theory looks at 11 dimensions again i'll play devil's advocate and ask what created the 11 dimensions. You see what pattern is emerging every scientific theory you and anyone else for bring up goes back to cause and effect Yes the M-theory may describe what happened before the big bang but like I said someone will ask what cause the M-theory.
Now people who believe in Science will say something like it physics or quantum physics or something but people who are relgious will say its god. But what if god created physics so people can understand how everything works?

Stephen Hawking: 'because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.'

Religious people say God must be the uncaused cause, why? Why can Gravity not be the uncaused cause? Or something else we're yet to discover. I won't even begin to understand M-theory, there's only around 1000 people on the planet who do understand it fully, but I believe it does explain why there's no need for a creator, there are just a lot of holes in the theory to fill.

 

[Chaz Sexington]

We have already had a long conversation on the bible, Look 5 pages back and your see my response.

And the rest of this is what...? So 2 people at different times came to the same conclusion, Yet millions of people at different times join the same religion.

It's called indoctrination and brainwashing. Did you read my Carl Sagan quote? The one about the invisible dragon? And they didn't come to the same conclusion independently, which is the part you can't seem to grasp.

No, i mean the people who just say Religion is bullshit, All religious people are crazy, Blah Blah Blah.....! It is discrimanation, it is no different to me being racist or Sexist.

First of all, it's discrimination. And yes, if I said I had an imaginary friend (I'm 23), you'd immediately think I'm nuts. Just because billions of people are deluded doesn't make it true. Most humans believed the Earth was flat, but it still didn't make it any flatter.

I can't answer that for him. All i know is, I dont dismiss Science and it clearly has some sort of function as millions of people believe in it, but Millions of people Believe in religion as well, Yet it is accepted to dismiss religion? That Puzzles me.

Science has some sort of function? No ****, Sherlock, it advances the human race. Without science, you'd still believe the Earth was flat.

Still doesnt mean you dont prove it, it is called Symbolism.

Again Words in my Mouth, I havent commented on a natural disaster( Which a building collapsing isnt)

If i had cancer, got told i had 6 weeks to live, yet 15 years later was still alive, that would be a miracle...

Could it be the doctor was wrong!? OMGOOGLES. My doctor prescribed me fucithalmic which didn't cure my skin infection - does this count as a miracle? Or could it be the doctor didn't prescribe the right antibiotic?

That means, I could follow a similar pattern, but it would get boring, Not a dig in the slightest. Just i could name more similar events, Just cba.

It depends how you define Miracle. I see it as an unexpected event, without explanation. You might see it as differently.

Find these miracles. Miracle, as per normal definitions, is a supernatural event that CANNOT be explained in any way by the Laws of Nature e.g. Moses through the Red Sea.

Wait that was my argument last night about something must of happen to cause the big bang to happen nothing comes from nothing

Im not discrediting the big bang theory but something/someone must of caused/created the big bang

Something, yes. Magic is HIGHLY improbable.

 

[donkarlito]

Stephen Hawking: 'because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.'

Religious people say God must be the uncaused cause, why? Why can Gravity not be the uncaused cause? Or something else we're yet to discover. I won't even begin to understand M-theory, there's only around 1000 people on the planet who do understand it fully, but I believe it does explain why there's no need for a creator, there are just a lot of holes in the theory to fill.

So we should believe that then a theory full holes that need to be filled in

 

[Scott]

It's called indoctrination and brainwashing. Did you read my Carl Sagan quote? The one about the invisible dragon? And they didn't come to the same conclusion independently, which is the part you can't seem to grasp.



First of all, it's discrimination. And yes, if I said I had an imaginary friend (I'm 23), you'd immediately think I'm nuts. Just because billions of people are deluded doesn't make it true. Most humans believed the Earth was flat, but it still didn't make it any flatter.



Science has some sort of function? No ****, Sherlock, it advances the human race. Without science, you'd still believe the Earth was flat.



Could it be the doctor was wrong!? OMGOOGLES. My doctor prescribed me fucithalmic which didn't cure my skin infection - does this count as a miracle? Or could it be the doctor didn't prescribe the right antibiotic?



Find these miracles. Miracle, as per normal definitions, is a supernatural event that CANNOT be explained in any way by the Laws of Nature e.g. Moses through the Red Sea.



Something, yes. Magic is HIGHLY improbable.

Brainwashed and Indoctrination, another Stereotype, SIGH. I was never brainwashed, I came to the conclusion all by myself, And i am sure plenty others did.


Discrimination is wrong, any way you look at it. So stop trying to justify any discrimination.


And i disagreed with this where...? After all, God Created Science.

your Medicine is not life threatening i guess? So it is different.

Miracles = any amazing or wonderful occurrence
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=miracle

 

[Joel`]

So we should believe that then a theory full holes that need to be filled in

Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said we should believe it. There is no complete theory for why our universe was created, but they're almost infinitely closer to explaining it than religion. ****, there's A LOT more holes that need to be filled in religious theory.

 

[donkarlito]

It's called indoctrination and brainwashing. Did you read my Carl Sagan quote? The one about the invisible dragon? And they didn't come to the same conclusion independently, which is the part you can't seem to grasp.



First of all, it's discrimination. And yes, if I said I had an imaginary friend (I'm 23), you'd immediately think I'm nuts. Just because billions of people are deluded doesn't make it true. Most humans believed the Earth was flat, but it still didn't make it any flatter.



Science has some sort of function? No ****, Sherlock, it advances the human race. Without science, you'd still believe the Earth was flat.



Could it be the doctor was wrong!? OMGOOGLES. My doctor prescribed me fucithalmic which didn't cure my skin infection - does this count as a miracle? Or could it be the doctor didn't prescribe the right antibiotic?



Find these miracles. Miracle, as per normal definitions, is a supernatural event that CANNOT be explained in any way by the Laws of Nature e.g. Moses through the Red Sea.



Something, yes. Magic is HIGHLY improbable.

I'll ask you this why do you find it so hard to accept that their are people in world that believe in god or in a faith?

 

[Joel`]

Brainwashed and Indoctrination, another Stereotype, SIGH. I was never brainwashed, I came to the conclusion all by myself, And i am sure plenty others did.


Discrimination is wrong, any way you look at it. So stop trying to justify any discrimination.


And i disagreed with this where...? After all, God Created Science.

your Medicine is not life threatening i guess? So it is different.

Miracles = any amazing or wonderful occurrence
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=miracle

It's the same principle that human incompetence and/or lack of current medical knowledge explains why someone will survive when given no hope. You're saying that a doctor (A human, that does not know everything) gives someone no chance of survival, and then saying that is a divine event? If I say to you right now, you'll sneeze in the next minute, and you don't, is that a miracle? Or if a doctor says it to you, is it a miracle if you don't? Or what if a doctor tells someone his genes show he'll have heart disease in the future. If he doesn't, he either a) Died before heart disease took effect or b) It shows a lack of understanding in a completely new field of science.

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------

I'll ask you this why do you find it so hard to accept that their are people in world that believe in god or in a faith?

I've asked like 5 times now, why do you find it so hard to accept that there are people in the world that believe in Santa Claus?!

 

[Scott]

It's the same principle that human incompetence and/or lack of current medical knowledge explains why someone will survive when given no hope. You're saying that a doctor (A human, that does not know everything) gives someone no chance of survival, and then saying that is a divine event? If I say to you right now, you'll sneeze in the next minute, and you don't, is that a miracle? Or if a doctor says it to you, is it a miracle if you don't? Or what if a doctor tells someone his genes show he'll have heart disease in the future. If he doesn't, he either a) Died before heart disease took effect or b) It shows a lack of understanding in a completely new field of science.

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------



I've asked like 5 times now, why do you find it so hard to accept that there are people in the world that believe in Santa Claus?!

Sneezing is a natural reaction, it is not the same as surviving something like cancer...


I never said i found it hard to beileve, just comparing God to santa is stupid and you know it.

 

[Joel`]

Sneezing is a natural reaction, it is not the same as surviving something like cancer...


I never said i found it hard to beileve, just comparing God to santa is stupid and you know it.

You keep saying it's stupid, but you've offered no way of explaining why it's stupid. It's taking the exact same evidence and claiming it means different things in different situations. Is it because I'm using Santa as an example, what about Chaz's quote about Carl Sagan's invisible dragon? The same applies to any situation with an unexplainable event, and that is because the same evidence applies to each unexplainable event, and it's substitutable in every case but religion, why?

 

[donkarlito]

Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said we should believe it. There is no complete theory for why our universe was created, but they're almost infinitely closer to explaining it than religion. ****, there's A LOT more holes that need to be filled in religious theory.

You believe it so should be mocking you, throwing reglious quotes at you?

No I shouldnt all I have been saying is I need to see, understand all the evidence before I make mind up the problem is there will always be cause, If you can come up with theory explaining M-Theory someone will say what caused your theory to cause M-theory to cause the big bang. This is why Im slap bang in the middle of this debate you throw a science theory I want the cause, you throw a reglious evidence Ill say i need proof the only way I find out is when I die and Saint Peter is sat there in front Pearly gate asking my name, then God must exists, if I die and nothing happens there must be no god.

 

[Joel`]

You believe it so should be mocking you, throwing reglious quotes at you?

No I shouldnt all I have been saying is I need to see, understand all the evidence before I make mind up the problem is there will always be cause, If you can come up with theory explaining M-Theory someone will say what caused your theory to cause M-theory to cause the big bang. This is why Im slap bang in the middle of this debate you throw a science theory I want the cause, you throw a reglious evidence Ill say i need proof the only way I find out is when I die and Saint Peter is sat there in front Pearly gate asking my name, then God must exists, if I die and nothing happens there must be no god.

Show me where I said I believed the theory, I've named 3-4 theories, I can't possibly believe them all. I'm believing nothing without substantial proof, and I already stated that M-theory in itself explains why it is the theory of everything, stop getting hung up on cause-effect, if you look in depth at the theories rather than just asking for the cause of X theory, you will see that each new scientific theory for the creation of our universe is trying to explain the first cause.

 

[donkarlito]

It's the same principle that human incompetence and/or lack of current medical knowledge explains why someone will survive when given no hope. You're saying that a doctor (A human, that does not know everything) gives someone no chance of survival, and then saying that is a divine event? If I say to you right now, you'll sneeze in the next minute, and you don't, is that a miracle? Or if a doctor says it to you, is it a miracle if you don't? Or what if a doctor tells someone his genes show he'll have heart disease in the future. If he doesn't, he either a) Died before heart disease took effect or b) It shows a lack of understanding in a completely new field of science.

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------



I've asked like 5 times now, why do you find it so hard to accept that there are people in the world that believe in Santa Claus?!

The only people I know that believe in Santa Claus are kids aged 7 and under and its used so kids will behave so they can get the present, I dont know of any adult that believes in Santa Clause. I find it funny your using the "Belief of Santa Claus" and compare against the likes of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism bit insulting dont you think?