England Thread

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This is a squad built for a diamond shape and we are not playing it. It's actually ludicrous. And I'm fed up of us getting basic set ups wrong every tournament.
 
Bujakaa said:
I tried to figure out what kind of tactic Roy is using. The players just seem to be on the pitch, get ball forward and somehow maybe get a goal.
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After suffering the absolute archaic imbecile for 6 months a whiles back that would be your first mistake.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Did someone mention they couldn't understand Walker playing ahead of Clyne? .....

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You always advocate that stats are misleading when someone brings it up, those stats have been very carefully selected,

For instance Clyne did have 40 successful passes but what that doesn't show is that 30 of those where backwards so its not like he is putting arcing defence splitting balls. 75% went backwards to mainly Dier and Caahlll I am betting.Walkers average passes were 31 over the two games with 19.5 of those going forwards. So that's 60% of his output going forwards quite the difference no?

Another stat that has been missed out well tackles won is 1 to Walker and 0 to Clyne but tackles lost which against big teams will be key in the fullback area Walker only has averages 1 against better opposition whereas Clyne missed 3. And this against an opposition that came to park the bus for 90 minutes.
 
epic terrorist said:
You always advocate that stats are misleading when someone brings it up, those stats have been very carefully selected. .....
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Most ALL stats are carefully selected to suit aren't they? That's why they're pretty much superfluous and can be manipulated to suit. (Not to be picky as it's neither here nor there but your throwing up an arbitrary figure there of backwards passes without actually knowing which went which way. Everyone does it.). They were off a general site FWIW and not a particular team biased one. Clyne was certainly England's best player yesterday. As Walker was the Russian game for me. (Never saw the Wales game.).

Overall point still stands that there wasn't a more consistent FB last year than Clyne through 52 games. This assertion here that Walker's 'by far and away England's best RB' I just can't get down with having watched Clyne all last season. There's only the Utd game that jumps out as a bad one he had. (Sure there's one or two others I'm forgetting. But the fact only one instantly jumps out tells you a lot about how consistent his performances were.).

That said, again, I get the club connection and I'm more than happy for Walker to play the rest of this tournament ahead of him.
 
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Pretty much six and two threes FWIW on the passing combinations for England off the opta stats zone.

Clyne to Henderson was third yesterday for England at 17 times. Clyne to Dier 8th 15 times. (The first player is the one who instigates the pass.).

Walker against Wales was listed once to Sturridge. 12 times. And once to Lallana 11 times in the opener.

Make of that what you will. For some reason, unlike PL games, there's no individual stat breakdown through the game for the Euro's on the stats zone site.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Most ALL stats are carefully selected to suit aren't they? That's why they're pretty much superfluous and can be manipulated to suit. They were off a general site FWIW and not a particular team biased one. Clyne was certainly England's best player yesterday. As Walker was the Russian game for me. (Never saw the Wales game.).

Overall point still stands that there wasn't a more consistent FB last year than Clyne through 52 games. This assertion here that Walker's 'by far and away England's best RB' I just can't get down with having watched Clyne all last season. There's only the Utd game that jumps out as a bad one he had. (Sure there's one or two others I'm forgetting. But the fact only one instantly jumps out tells you a lot about how consistent his performances were.).

That said, again, I get the club connection and I'm more than happy for Walker to play the rest of this tournament ahead of him.
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Stats Superfluous really? you must know something that all these clubs and companies don't and they must be wasting millions of pounds a year on nothing.

But seriously no, when it comes to fan made images like that yes, stats are carefully selected to reinforce points. But when you or I can simply load up the Squawka website and look at 10s of different stats and look at totals, average per game, average per 90 minute and so on then no they are not superfluous

Stats and analysis are an integral part fo the game and long may it continue, gimme something I can touch anyday of the week than to quote Phil Thompson "you just know with your eyes", its ludricous to think that only certain people can understand the game due to some innate sixth sense that only they can have but they cannot explain it to anyone and it cannot be taught.

Also how do you know Walker was less consistent than Clye did you watch every Spurs game too? I am being facetious but I amsure you get the point


Where is Godcubed when you need him, long time members will know what I mean, (Seriously though Mike is he ok? do OPTA have him linked up to the matrix and all he sees is code now?)
 
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epic terrorist said:
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Also how do you know Walker was less consistent than Clye did you watch every Spurs game too? I am being facetious but I amsure you get the point
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Without getting into a debate on the worth, or not, of most stats in the modern game; I'll take the 52 games over 35 as a better indication of consistency.

I'm not dismissing/ dissing Walker at all. I just know the season Nathaniel had last year and for it to be said on here that the 'Spurs man is by far and away England's best RB I just can't agree with.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Without getting into a debate on the worth, or not, of most stats in the modern game; I'll take the 52 games over 35 as a better indication of consistency.

I'm not dismissing/ dissing Walker at all. I just know the season Nathaniel had last year and for it to be said on here that the 'Spurs man is by far and away England's best RB I just can't agree with.
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Really that's how the Rationale you are using? How can I even argue with that kind of logic........
 
epic terrorist said:
Really that's how the Rationale you are using? How can I even argue with that kind of logic........
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Yet you can pick arbitrary figures that 'you're betting on' being correct to make a point?

No need to be an *** man because we don't agree. WAY too many around here have that moniker patented already.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Yet you can pick arbitrary figures that 'you're betting on' being correct to make a point?

No need to be an *** man because we don't agree. WAY too many around here have that moniker patented already.
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Really?

First off I am not being an *** if I was you would know.

Secondly, I am not picking arbitary monikers that I am betting on being correct to make point. I watched Spurs alot becuase they are a good team to watch and Walker was excellent. I also use stats to back up my point, I don't see how Clyne is more consistent by virtue of playing more games, that is ridiculous.

Yes we don't agree and barring Pool fans I think everyone would want to see Walker in the team ahead of Clyne. The difference I am tryong to add substance to my point of view and not just saying I watched all his games ergo he was more consistent.

Fucksake, you try and have some proper debate and people just can't do it. Think what you want because frankly I cba
 
I have to agree with epic terrorist here. Scouse posted a graphic which quite obviously selectively presented stats to show that Clyne was the better player. Epic terrorist disproved that quite thoroughly imo by digging deeper and showing the other side of the coin. Now I am not statiscal expert who knows how to give all these statistics the proper contextual treatment they deserve and break this deadlock but I find that it is certainlys stretch to say that Clyne is better than Walker at this point.

Furthermore Scouse, you may have watched every LFC game and think Clyne is better and while I respect your opinion, did you watch every Spurs game as well? A team that incidentally nearly won the title with Walker playing nearly every game while Liverpool finished 8th. If not, how can you make a conclusive judgement on who is the better player when you only watch one player regularly who also happens to be from the team you support colouring you invariably with a little bias. Also while ability of player matters, it may simply be that Walker fits better into what Hodgson is trying to achieve with his tactics or maybe he has better chemistry with his defensive partners. There are so many factors that go into selecting a player instead of just ability alone.
 
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