Homosexuality within sport

[Manchesto]

Sigh, please read again. What i'm saying is when a person gets older and better understands homosexuality and campness, that's when they decide for themselves that's what they are. I'm not saying you don't understand the two.


What a stupid thing to say. They make the choice because they are clearly attracted to the same ***, not because they want to be bullied.


To be honest I have the same view of the opposite side of the fence. Some of the pro-gay people in this thread also think being gay (and what it involves) is wrong, as do I. And so I think it's pretty ignorant that it's promoted almost as a good thing by today's media.

Understanding sexuality and campness... I guess you should be the one tell 'them' how to behave. 'What they are', you are the one who isn't reading here, people are born a certain way, people certainly can change but unfortunatley for you, they won't wake up one day and decide not to be camp (sorry to disappoint you).

I'm not saying they make the choice to be gay in order to get bullied, the way you have read my post is laughable. I'm asking you why people would want to put themselves through that for no reason?

Being 'pro-gay', I don't find gay *** appealing, but you act as if gay *** is shoved in your face and you have to watch it..... It is completely the opposite, you are going extremly out of your way to make the point that it disgusts you.

---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

Surely if he's your identical twin brother it's a good demonstration that nurture or some other variable can also affect sexuality, as well as nature? At some point during his, or your, development, be it pre or post birth, something must have happened different to either of you to cause such psychological differences?

All people can be born with abnormalities, maybe an extra toe blind in one eye etc etc, so why can't sexuality be the same.

'Identical' when applied to twins is a term to describe the aesthetics of the two people. There are several theories as to why people are gay, some say it is hormonal, some say it is a chemical imbalance in the brain. There are several ideas that could be used to explain his sexuality. I was merely making the point that we are two people who have lived almost identical lives and are still very different, both sexually and in our everyday lives.

 

[adibhoy]

It doesn't exactly fill my head with Joy either, but surely, if this is happening in some ones own home, why does this matter? That is who they are, and to say you do not like gays because two men sleep together surely is a little silly?

Would you all of a sudden hate a man who saved your life, like a Dr, just because he might get "jiggy Jiggy" with another guy?

If "gays", and all gays, were doing this in Public, then you're statement would be correct, but they dont,

i think they are perfectly entitled to do what they like in their own homes. just like i would feel the same way about a straight person

i never said i HATE gay people. i just dont agree with it. its my opinion and im sure there are gay people that will think my opinions are terrible(which there more than welcome to think)

i know im not alone in saying if one of my friends told me they were gay i would seriously consider stopping associating myself with him

 

[Mike.]

i think they are perfectly entitled to do what they like in their own homes. just like i would feel the same way about a straight person

i never said i HATE gay people. i just dont agree with it. its my opinion and im sure there are gay people that will think my opinions are terrible(which there more than welcome to think)

i know im not alone in saying if one of my friends told me they were gay i would seriously consider stopping associating myself with him

the fact that you are not alone doesn't make it any less tragic. you don't seem like much of a friend. your choice though

 

[ajt09]

i think they are perfectly entitled to do what they like in their own homes. just like i would feel the same way about a straight person

i never said i HATE gay people. i just dont agree with it. its my opinion and im sure there are gay people that will think my opinions are terrible(which there more than welcome to think)

i know im not alone in saying if one of my friends told me they were gay i would seriously consider stopping associating myself with him

if you were mates with someone for 20 odd years, admitted he was gay, you'd stop being friends with him? Throw away the friendship? (20 years just an example)

 

[adibhoy]

Because your uncomfortable with it means they should keep quiet ? behave yourself and grow up. I don't like the idea of two men getting together either, However it's not as if we're asking 2 players to admit they're gay and get "jiggy" as you say on the park. As long as they keep it in the privacy of their on home then it's fine. they are harming no one and aren't harming you.

that is not what im saying. im saying its probably best they keep quiet so that the thousands of football fans who have similiar opinions too mine do not give them a horrible time. there will be a lot of fans(not including myself) who give these players absolute dogs abuse(which is wrong)

im saying that for there own good they should keep it quiet. in order to protect themselves, not in order to make my viewing experience more pleasent

 

[Cal.]

All people can be born with abnormalities, maybe an extra toe blind in one eye etc etc, so why can't sexuality be the same.

'Identical' when applied to twins is a term to describe the aesthetics of the two people. There are several theories as to why people are gay, some say it is hormonal, some say it is a chemical imbalance in the brain. There are several ideas that could be used to explain his sexuality. I was merely making the point that we are two people who have lived almost identical lives and are still very different, both sexually and in our everyday lives.

I was just referring to how you both started off with a truly level platform; the same DNA. From there whatever mutations and other environmental factors have made each of you who you are, as happens to any person after conception.

 

[GodCubed]

i know im not alone in saying if one of my friends told me they were gay i would seriously consider stopping associating myself with him

But why? What does this change about him in any way at all? Why should you care? All it means is that he finds men attractive rather than women, and that's all. He's not going to be any different as a person to you, so what kind of person does that make you if you no longer associate with them just because of their sexual preference?

It's a sad and terrible indictment on humankind when I read things like this, and it makes me unhappy and annoyed.

 

[adibhoy]

if you were mates with someone for 20 odd years, admitted he was gay, you'd stop being friends with him? Throw away the friendship? (20 years just an example)

i suppose i cant really answer that question until one of them does. however i think i would give it consideration and i know the rest of my mates would be the same if it was me that came out(we have had this conversation)

 

[ajt09]

i suppose i cant really answer that question until one of them does. however i think i would give it consideration and i know the rest of my mates would be the same if it was me that came out(we have had this conversation)

Well, if that situation did ever arise, and you did decide to do that, the consequences on him or her, would be potentially devastating. I've seen it happen before, and I've been to the funeral. I really hope you wouldn't do that.

 

[jamespir]

i know im not alone in saying if one of my friends told me they were gay i would seriously consider stopping associating myself with him

thats just pathetic and you dont deserve any friends if you could thiink like that



what happened if one of your female friends told you they were lesbian would you stop associating with them

 

[Manchesto]

i know the rest of my mates would be the same if it was me that came out(we have had this conversation)

This is sadly the problem, you can't act alone and make your own decisions, which I find very grim.

The age old analogy 'if he jumped off a bridge, would you jump too...?'

 

[Chaz Sexington]

i suppose i cant really answer that question until one of them does. however i think i would give it consideration and i know the rest of my mates would be the same if it was me that came out(we have had this conversation)

But why wouldn't you want to associate with a gay guy?

Also, imagine being the gay guy. He'd lose his best pals because of something he couldn't help. That's pretty grim.

 

[Craven]

i suppose i cant really answer that question until one of them does. however i think i would give it consideration and i know the rest of my mates would be the same if it was me that came out(we have had this conversation)

Dude, if the conversation of "If one of us was gay, would you stop being friends" came up, then one of your friends is possibly gay.

I've never had this conversation with my friends, but that's because my friends aren't from the stone age.

 

[Manchesto]

Sorry Cal. I thought you said that it was not a good example. I misread your post, my apologies.

 

[curtis290]

I was just referring to how you both started off with a truly level platform; the same DNA. From there whatever mutations and other environmental factors have made each of you who you are, as happens to any person after conception.

Yes, you are correct that being gay isn't purely determined by genetics. The gay gene means you are more likely to be gay, but it isn't for certain. Apparently, a lot of what determines if you are gay happens during the pregnancy...scientists aren't really sure what causes it.

But the notion that it's a choice is quite absurd...nowadays gays are (relatively) accepted by society, but back then you could be burned at the stake for it...why would people choose to be gay in such an instance? Now some of the anti-gay crowd in the thread might say that "attraction isn't a choice, but acting on it is" but why would they not act on it? Why shouldn't they? Why should they not be allowed to do something in the privacy of their own home, whether it's smoking weed or gay ***? To ask them to ignore their biological urges just because you don't like the idea of them doing something in the privacy of their own home is ludicrous, I think. Think of how hard that would be, imagine if you were prohibited from having *** with women because the society decided that pre-marital *** was immoral and disgusting...that would suck, and it wouldn't be fair because you should be able to do what you want in the privacy of your own home (not in public of course, that goes for any type of ***). Of course many of us can't have *** for other reasons, but still, we would prefer it to be legal on those very rare occasions .

 

[*Paul*]

I don't think gay people deserve this abuse, it is irrational and immature. Some people on this thread are just provoking a reaction but (luckily) most people are acting mature and giving good arguments - or at least trying to.

You can't generalise like that, although sometimes this abuse is due to how people are brought up.

To be fair, the main reason why there is so much abuse is that a lot of people use the word 'gay' as an insult, like "Haha, you're such a gayboy!" If I'm honest I sometimes use it as well, although I do not really think they are bad in any way, even if I am slightly uncomfortably with two men doing it together - but it's none of my business what they get up to.

I mean, would you think someone was camp just because they hugged their team mate in football after scoring a class goal or when get patted a friend on the back? No. It is just generalising and many gays don't act camp, they just keep quiet.

I reckon if a top role model like Steven Gerrard, John Terry, Paul Scholes (people who their fans love because they are so loyal) came out and said they were gay, their own fans would understand and not think about being gay as a bad thing. However, the problem is the opposition fans would probably abuse the players (e.g. Everton, Arsenal, Man City).

Fifa, UEFA, the FA and many other organisations need to tackle this problem, especially in places like Eastern Europe, and stop it from happening.

 

[ShinyJaker]

This thread is flying off topic haha.
But anyway, here's my 2c....
First, people are saying being gay is a gene or whatever: no, it's not. There's no conclusive proof and is illogical anyway -- it would be a redundant gene and would no way get passed on. It'd have been bred out by now. It's not, however, a choice at all. No sane person would make the decision to be inherently homosexual if they have an unbiased view -- surely bisexuality would be the best chance as you're twice as likely to pull?

Secondly, back to the original topic. I, being a homosexual myself, have no issue with the idea of a homosexual in sport, and believe it'd be a great boost to public views of homosexuality if there were more out celebrities, especially in more masculine fields like sport. The argument "it's their lives" or that "they should keep it to themselves" has no real baring -- the people who dislike the idea of homosexuality could just ignore any media exposure (which is certainly more logical than them wanting to almost censor the media for everyone else). On top of that, it'd be great for young people who aren't comfortable with their sexuality, or fear what people may think.

Alas, this isn't the case now and it won't become so overnight, but I think that in time homophobic in sport will, as racists are now, be the minority to be looked down upon and heckled. Maybe the FA will introduce a "Kick it Out" policy for homophobia. However, I think given the whole Keys and Grey fiasco, gender is a slightly more pressing issue at the moment.

tl;dr: If you don't like homosexuality, shut up and put up.

 

[Clince121188]

i suppose i cant really answer that question until one of them does. however i think i would give it consideration and i know the rest of my mates would be the same if it was me that came out(we have had this conversation)

So basically if you have over 10 friends that you have discussed this with, you have already more than likely made one of them completely insecure about his friendship with you, as 1 in 10 are gay. This means if you're best friend in the world is gay, you have now made it impossible for him to be completely honest with you. You will more than likely lose him as a friend or even worse, he could live through a friendship, where he accepts everything about you and he is constantly worried that his most beloved friend could end up hating him at any time if you simply find out that he puts a body part in someone, when you can't see him and dont have a clue he's doing it.

That, is simply disgusting!

 

[adibhoy]

This is sadly the problem, you can't act alone and make your own decisions, which I find very grim.

The age old analogy 'if he jumped off a bridge, would you jump too...?'

well i cant speak for all my friends but it was my opinion before and after the conversation i had. i didnt start the conversation(i joined half way) and everybody involved seemed to have the same opinion as me.

my friends and i were not going out to influence anyones opinions and to be honest if you knew us you would know that the conversation didnt change anyones opinion because since the day i have known them we have all had similar feelings on this topic

its not a case of acting alone or acting with a pack. i have had these opinions since before i knew a lot of my friends.


and to the ****** that said i dont deserve friends...... you dont know me! i could be one of the nicest guys youll meet or equally i could be horrible. your judging me as a person based on my views about the topic of homosexuality which is ironically what your accusing me of

 

[ajt09]

This thread is flying off topic haha.
But anyway, here's my 2c....
First, people are saying being gay is a gene or whatever: no, it's not. There's no conclusive proof and is illogical anyway -- it would be a redundant gene and would no way get passed on. It'd have been bred out by now. It's not, however, a choice at all. No sane person would make the decision to be inherently homosexual if they have an unbiased view -- surely bisexuality would be the best chance as you're twice as likely to pull?

Secondly, back to the original topic. I, being a homosexual myself, have no issue with the idea of a homosexual in sport, and believe it'd be a great boost to public views of homosexuality if there were more out celebrities, especially in more masculine fields like sport. The argument "it's their lives" or that "they should keep it to themselves" has no real baring -- the people who dislike the idea of homosexuality could just ignore any media exposure (which is certainly more logical than them wanting to almost censor the media for everyone else). On top of that, it'd be great for young people who aren't comfortable with their sexuality, or fear what people may think.

Alas, this isn't the case now and it won't become so overnight, but I think that in time homophobic in sport will, as racists are now, be the minority to be looked down upon and heckled. Maybe the FA will introduce a "Kick it Out" policy for homophobia. However, I think given the whole Keys and Grey fiasco, gender is a slightly more pressing issue at the moment.

tl;dr: If you don't like homosexuality, shut up and put up.

I have to be honest, been so engrossed in the debates from both sides, didn't notice went slightly OT. oops:$.