Liverpool Sign Carroll - Also gets number 9 shirt
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ashley said this morning Carroll requested an improved contract after already having it sorted in October. When it was rejected, apparently he handed in request. Me thinks.........absolute ****
cbrown1987
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well said
After initially thinking that Liverpool had gone mental bidding £35m it does make sense I can't help but actually be excited by all this.
To everyone saying "ZOMGGGRR £35m for Carroll?!! ROFLCOPTTR" Yes he did only score 17 goals last season, yes he was outscored by Whittingham amongst other Championship standard players, but the guy was in his first full season as a Newcastle player, go and compare him against a player who is playing his first season in professional football, compare him against players who were only 21 years old, pretty sure he's top of the pile. Not saying it is unfair to compare him against the plays that SS compared him to but for his age you cannot deny his talent.
This season he has outscored Rooney, Torres, Drogba and Bent [who for some reason is being hailed as a bargain?] in the league, at the age of 22, that's impressive.
Also I would like to refer you all to a young Wayne Rooney, United paid a staggering £25m about 6 years ago, for a player who looked ...good, for Everton, but look how he turned out.. Well before the World Cup anyway..
Although at least for the first time in a long time things are looking up for Liverpool! Can't wait to go watch the partnership of Suarez and Carroll at Anfield, will be truly orgasmic.
To everyone saying "ZOMGGGRR £35m for Carroll?!! ROFLCOPTTR" Yes he did only score 17 goals last season, yes he was outscored by Whittingham amongst other Championship standard players, but the guy was in his first full season as a Newcastle player, go and compare him against a player who is playing his first season in professional football, compare him against players who were only 21 years old, pretty sure he's top of the pile. Not saying it is unfair to compare him against the plays that SS compared him to but for his age you cannot deny his talent.
This season he has outscored Rooney, Torres, Drogba and Bent [who for some reason is being hailed as a bargain?] in the league, at the age of 22, that's impressive.
Also I would like to refer you all to a young Wayne Rooney, United paid a staggering £25m about 6 years ago, for a player who looked ...good, for Everton, but look how he turned out.. Well before the World Cup anyway..
Although at least for the first time in a long time things are looking up for Liverpool! Can't wait to go watch the partnership of Suarez and Carroll at Anfield, will be truly orgasmic.
One of the issues NESV had with the current squad, and also Roy Hodgson’s signings, is that the players are all relatively old. This is generally when a player is over-valued: they have built up big contracts but are probably past their peak; they are trading on their fame now, not necessarily the ability that earned this fame in the first place. So there’ll be a big emphasis on young talent, talent coming into its peak and which might then be usefully sold on in due course. (The Torres deal is terrific for them, too: a player who was briefly great, but has since only been good, but who still commands the fee of a great player).
Andy Carroll makes sense for Liverpool on a few of levels. One: he’s young. In five years he’ll be in his prime (or perhaps past his prime, but near enough that someone will still want him around) and can then be sold on for good money again. If transfer fees exceed inflation (as surely they will, especially if there’s an economic recovery) then there’s a fair chance that a good amount of that £35million can be recouped. Especially because two: he should age well. He hasn’t played a lot of games for his age, and his skillset is one that ought to age well. Three: he’s unique. Seriously, Carroll has an ability that not many others have. He’s phenomenal in the air, has a decent touch, and appears to have the instincts to make the most of his skills. Four: (ack) he’ll enhance the brand. He’s John Charles, John Toshack, a most English of English centre-forwards. Liverpool fans are nothing if not backward looking: they’ll love their all action number 9. He’ll make the club a fortune in shirt sales around the world.
So there are reasons to spend big on Carroll. No, he’s not undervalued at all; but he’s not without value, and as a signing he makes sense. Liverpool’s owners will have done the analysis and will know that success costs money. The more you spend the better you get. From there it will have been a question of working out how to spend that money. You can buy seven five million players for £35 million, but then you end up no better off; you can buy three ten million players and maybe that does make a difference; but if you think you have found premium talent, talent that is not available from any other source, you have to pay up. With Carroll and Suarez Liverpool have paid up; they’ll know what they’re doing here, and just as Chelsea and City had to spend away to kick start their ascendency, so too are John Henry’s team. He needs defenders now and a few more £10 million types dotted around the pitch to make this really pay off, but the recovery is on.
Rio Ferdinand at the time was mocked for his transfer fee. 29 million for a CB
235 league appearances, 4 league titles and a Champions League later, he looks like a fantastic bit of business.
It's a risk. A massive risk. But Carroll and Rio OBVIOUSLY have talent.
Andy Carroll makes sense for Liverpool on a few of levels. One: he’s young. In five years he’ll be in his prime (or perhaps past his prime, but near enough that someone will still want him around) and can then be sold on for good money again. If transfer fees exceed inflation (as surely they will, especially if there’s an economic recovery) then there’s a fair chance that a good amount of that £35million can be recouped. Especially because two: he should age well. He hasn’t played a lot of games for his age, and his skillset is one that ought to age well. Three: he’s unique. Seriously, Carroll has an ability that not many others have. He’s phenomenal in the air, has a decent touch, and appears to have the instincts to make the most of his skills. Four: (ack) he’ll enhance the brand. He’s John Charles, John Toshack, a most English of English centre-forwards. Liverpool fans are nothing if not backward looking: they’ll love their all action number 9. He’ll make the club a fortune in shirt sales around the world.
So there are reasons to spend big on Carroll. No, he’s not undervalued at all; but he’s not without value, and as a signing he makes sense. Liverpool’s owners will have done the analysis and will know that success costs money. The more you spend the better you get. From there it will have been a question of working out how to spend that money. You can buy seven five million players for £35 million, but then you end up no better off; you can buy three ten million players and maybe that does make a difference; but if you think you have found premium talent, talent that is not available from any other source, you have to pay up. With Carroll and Suarez Liverpool have paid up; they’ll know what they’re doing here, and just as Chelsea and City had to spend away to kick start their ascendency, so too are John Henry’s team. He needs defenders now and a few more £10 million types dotted around the pitch to make this really pay off, but the recovery is on.
Rio Ferdinand at the time was mocked for his transfer fee. 29 million for a CB
235 league appearances, 4 league titles and a Champions League later, he looks like a fantastic bit of business.
It's a risk. A massive risk. But Carroll and Rio OBVIOUSLY have talent.
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The thing is NESV isn't some wealthy billionaire owner that wants to have fun with a club (not that I'm criticizing Abramahovic or the Sheikh, I would do the same thing if I had their kind of money), it's a sports investment group. Profit is their goal. They want to make a good name for themselves with the fans, so when they got an offer they couldn't refuse for Torres, they had to get someone and they went out and overspent on Carroll. I do think they'll reinforce the squad this summer, but after that? Liverpool needs to be playing Champions League football if it wants to think about making a profit, and there are 5 really solid teams they're competing with (and you never know, Villa or Sunderland could be in the mix next year). I think they're a very good team but that they won't quite make the Champions League next season.
So I don't see this whole thing being a profitable venture for NESV and I think they won't last long. But I'm sure a good owner will take their place, and hopefully for 'pool's sake, it will be someone wealthy.
So I don't see this whole thing being a profitable venture for NESV and I think they won't last long. But I'm sure a good owner will take their place, and hopefully for 'pool's sake, it will be someone wealthy.
Hate to nit-pick but Charles & Tosh weren't english. If you're looking for an english comparison, Carroll reminds me a lot of Mark 'Atilla' Hateley - a physically intimidating handfull for opposing centrebacks.
Your analysis is well put but I think most of us are still shell-shocked by the sheer massiveness of the fee for a relatively inexperienced young player. Only time will tell, as it did for Ferdinand, wether this is an inspired signing or a complete financial disaster.
Your analysis is well put but I think most of us are still shell-shocked by the sheer massiveness of the fee for a relatively inexperienced young player. Only time will tell, as it did for Ferdinand, wether this is an inspired signing or a complete financial disaster.
1. Profit isn't their goal, winning is.
2. They are exceptionally wealthy.
3. They will be in this for the long haul.
They've only just joined. :S
Yes, they have a goal to make profit but they know they're going to have a lot of expenditure instantaeously. They can't just come in and sell Torres without getting an exciting replacement. It is a long-term project, their aim is to find talented young players (generally between 19-24) and bring them in to fire the club to success. Then, when the players reputation skyrockets and he becomes sought after, sell him for a profit or recuperate the majority of the money spent on him. However the buying and selling of players is not the only way to make profit...
NESV want to make Liverpool succesful, success = money. The fan base is already one of the biggest in the world, and I am sure we're going to expand overseas, expecting NESV to promote us a lot in the USA.
Not only will NESV bring young players in from opposition clubs but they want to bring English lads through our youth system, hence, even more money is going to be poured into our youth facilities, coaching and recruitment process.
Their last aim is to sort our stadium situation out. They want to do what is in the interest of the fans though, and a lot of people are reluctant to move away from Anfield. Therefore NESV are looking to refurbish and slightly expand the stadium, pending an agreement from Liverpool City Council.
All in all it is all a very long term process, and is a very drawn out business strategy with the fans views and success of the club put foremost. Henry and co do not expect to be instantly in the black, although eventually they do want to make money, as they are an investment group. I cannot see them leaving for a while yet.
Also, there's a big difference in the way Carroll plays. If we take Bent, for example. Bent is an out-and-out goalscorer, he does that and that is it. That's nearly literally all he does. I reckon £24 mil for him was a good deal. Now if we look at Carroll, he adds a whole new dimension, he's tall, he's strong, he can score goals with head and feet, he forces the opposition to play a higher line, he holds the ball up extremely well, he enables others around him to score. He adds to the team in the way a player like Bent can't. Also, he's younger.
Basically, the money spent for Carroll was high, yes, but also worth it for a player of his immense potential. He really does have it all.
Basically, the money spent for Carroll was high, yes, but also worth it for a player of his immense potential. He really does have it all.
Hope you're right or we're going to look like total berks.
Yeah, there is a possibility you've just shelled out £35 mil for a donkey on a hot streak.
Enjoy your new Heskey, if that's the case!
There have been reports that NESV has struggled in the last few years, especially with the financial crisis. Their signing of Carroll definitely signals their intent to put cash in the short-term.
As for Torres' replacement, that's Suarez! He's a great goalscorer and should be a great player in the Prem. As I said in the other thread, you keep the 4-5-1
Reina
Kelly Carra Agger Aurelio
Mereiles Lucas
Rodriguez Gerrard Kuyt
Suarez
People are saying Suarez should play on the wing but then you lose his goal-scoring abilities. And it's not like he crosses really well. As for Carroll, Torres was never great in the air, he was a speedy goal-scorer, so I don't see how Carroll is his replacement, he's a different type of player. Anyways, this is a good squad, then in the summer, when you have time, you use the extra 25 million from the Torres bid to reinforce the squad. Maybe get a better winger and a defender or two.
I can see how some fans would be upset that Torres was sold without bringing in another player, but he only gave you guys three days! As a fan, I wouldn't expect the ownership to be able to bring in another player that fast. Anyways, what's the need? It's not like Liverpool will finish in the top 4 this season. So the rest of this season should be spent on evaluating the players in the squad: see who should stay and who should go and what you guys need. Then in the summer, when you have lots of time, you pick out exactly what you need and buy those players for reasonable amounts. You'd have 25 million plus whatever the owners are willing to give you. That much money wisely spent could put you guys in a position to compete for the top 4 next season.
Makes much more sense than this 35 million for Carroll nonsense.
But back to NESV. A couple things. First, why do you say their objective is winning? It's an investment group. If it happened to be some billionaire with free time, then yeah, he'd want to win. But it's a big group of people whose sole purpose is to earn a profit. The New York Times, one of the biggest shareholders, does not care if Liverpool wins or not. Liverpool is simply one of NESV's projects, alongside the Red Sox, NESN, and the Bruins.
ALso, these guys are Americans. They don't know anything about football. They see how much money is involved in the sport and they must think that they can make a lot. But they don't realize how difficult it is to run a profitable club in the Premiership these days. Liverpool has to be playing CL football, which is **** near impossible when you're competing with ManCity, Chelsea, and Tottenham now that they've gotten good. ManU and Arsenal are there to stay. Tottenham is on the rise and ManCity and Chelsea lose a lot of money but can do so because of their ownership.
I think NESV didn't realize how competitive the Prem would be when they took over (they must have assumed that they could just bring in Hodgson and expect Liverpool to play well, since they were in the Champions League only last year), and once they've been at this a couple of years and spend a lot of money only to be outspent by Chelsea and ManCity and unable to crack the top 4, they'll bail out. That's my prediction. They're going to have to spend a lot of money to overhaul this squad since a lot of players are getting old, and Gerrard doesn't have many years left in him. What are you going to do when he retires? What you need is a rich billionaire whose only interest is Liverpool and winning trophies, and have him hire a manager who can oversee a long-term project to rebuild the squad for the future.
I think it's good that the ownership seems to want to follow the Arsenal model: buy young players and develop them (and maybe even sell some of them to City afterwards), but if you're going to spend 35 million on Carroll, other clubs won't take you seriously. They're going to expect a lot when you bid for one of their players.
Also, as far as expanding Liverpool's brand in America, the problem is everyone in America worships ManU. So that'll make things tricky.
NESV have built a reputation on success, Boston Red Sox went from near the bottom of the MLB to the top. Look at their NASCAR team, Roush Fenway Racing are currently one of the best NASCAR teams out there. Henry and Werner are winners, they want to bring success to Liverpool, they have gave a lot of time to us and I know for a fact they want to take us back to the top.
Not sure what their nationality has to do with anything. You talk is if Henry and co are stupid, when they're quite clearly some of the most knowledgable businessmen out there. Arsenal maintain good profits, they're one of the best clubs in the country, NESV's aim is to have Liverpool run similarly to them.
Hodgson was brought in by H+G. Reina, Kelly, Agger, Meireles, Lucas, Pacheco, Suarez, Carroll, and N'gog all seem to be players here for years yet, none of them are old. We also have Ayala, Robinson, Coady, Suso, Shelvey and Sterling developing. We need to spend money yes, but not masses of it, we only need quality in certain areas. When Gerrard retires, I'm sure Connor Coady and Jonjo Shelvey will be ready to come into the first team. I, for one wouldn't like to see a rich billionaire at Liverpool, it's like using FMRTE to go out and buy the best players, it's pointless, I'd much rather the club worked hard for success. Not entirely sure what's happening on the managerial situation yet.
Carroll is young, English, was one a long-term contract, we were always going to spend over the odds for him (not that I am defending the sum). Tottenham bid £28 million for him, everyone takes them seriously. I reckon the Carroll transfer was a message of intent from the owners, Comolli and the King.
Chelsea are now massive in the USA, I don't see why we can't gain more interest over there.
You really have no idea do you. And that solves none of our problems we've had for the last god knows how long.
Suarez cutting on from the left and Carroll up top adds a whole new dimension to us.
Good points Ben, although I still think it would have been much better if they hadn't blown the 35 million and then spent it wisely in the summer.
And what would your lineup be exactly? If Suarez is cutting in on the left than who is supposed to provide aerial service to Carroll? If you intend to play Carroll in Torres' role in the 4-5-1, you're going to have to change the way you play, and a more aerial game means less reliance on Gerrard, which I don't think is a good idea for you guys. I think Gerrard sending through balls to Suarez (playing in Torres' role) is going to get you more goals than having Maxi Rodriguez try and cross it to Carroll.
I didn't say it was a world-beating squad, but you're not going to get in the top 4 this season anyway. So this season should be for evaluating players, and then in the summer time, you'd have a small fortune to spend on reinforcing the squad. You could spend 20-25 million on a really good, young winger, and spend the same amount on a couple of good young defenders. Then next year you'll be challenging for the top 4.
And what would your lineup be exactly? If Suarez is cutting in on the left than who is supposed to provide aerial service to Carroll? If you intend to play Carroll in Torres' role in the 4-5-1, you're going to have to change the way you play, and a more aerial game means less reliance on Gerrard, which I don't think is a good idea for you guys. I think Gerrard sending through balls to Suarez (playing in Torres' role) is going to get you more goals than having Maxi Rodriguez try and cross it to Carroll.
I didn't say it was a world-beating squad, but you're not going to get in the top 4 this season anyway. So this season should be for evaluating players, and then in the summer time, you'd have a small fortune to spend on reinforcing the squad. You could spend 20-25 million on a really good, young winger, and spend the same amount on a couple of good young defenders. Then next year you'll be challenging for the top 4.
CrownJewell
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Carroll is a ridiculous waste of money, he didn't even get 20 goals last season when Newcastle dominated the Championship.
Hilarious.
Hilarious.
adityajain
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Lol even Aguero had 38.5 Mn release clause and same age as Caroll but PROVEN CLASS!!