Man Utd money the key - Benitez

[TheHig]

Entertaining Thread, Love ManUtd v Liverpool arguments

 

[Lee]

I cant believe you included ***** like the charity shield and super cup in your list. lol...

I don't class them as major trophies just though I'd include them, seeing as you seem to be using the fact Man Utd are World Champions in some of your arguments.

 

[TheHig]

good point, the world club cup cant be taken seriously can it, If you stick West Ham in it I think they might win it lol.

 

[19-11-08]

money is most definetly not the key. benitez is not hat great. ngog is ****.

 

[Zebedee]

money is most definetly not the key. benitez is not hat great. ngog is ****.

If money is not the key, why did Manchester's success depend on them becoming a PLC and was dependant on the Premier League being established? That's honestly not a dig, as Liverpool should have prospered far more than we have done from keeping that 75% of our income which used to go to lower league teams and visiting teams in the league. Money has been the key to the rebirth of the Mancs as a table-topping team. Without it, Taggart would have been sacked a long time ago after his glorious mid-table finishes - not top four, mid-table. That's the advantage being able to go out and smash British transfer record after British transfer record gave you in the 90s.

N'Gog is a classy player. If you ever get chance to watch the French youth teams, have a look at just how he compares to his peers across the world. He's definitely an absolute bargain for about 1.5 million. If he can fill out a bit more while retaining his elegance then he'll be a good back-up for Torres.

Benitez offer of assistance to Taggart on a personal level reveals the true class of the man and shows that the rivalry is purely professional. Rafa's a good man and is totally in the mould of Shanks which is what we've needed - Liverpool first, second and third but willing to make personal gestures which transcend footballing rivalries.

Anyways, I totally agree that Koppites are gobshites. I'm an Anny Roader

 

[ajw]

Benitez's offer of assistance? Say what? I think if the rivalry wasn't personal, Rafa would have congratulated Ferguson personally-as Ferguson has done with Wenger and Mourninho-instead of saying just praising the team and making attacks on SAF himself.

Also, note my argument about Arsenal and Wenger on the previous page, which no-one seems to have responded to; the argument being that Wenger could break our stronghold without spending the money we were

Here's an interesting one-from my opinion. Alot of this debate has gone on about Benitez only being at Liverpool five years, so to compare his haul with Fergusons is unfair. Valid to an extent. But what about Arsene Wenger? He won the league in 1997/98 after only a few years, having not spent shitloads (correct me if I'm wrong). At least in comparison to us anyway, who probably were big spenders on the back of a double and a league title. Also, alot of this team (Adams, Seaman, Bergkamp) wasn't his. Just thought I'd throw that out there for the Liverpool fans to fuel even more debate

 

[Zebedee]

Benitez's offer of assistance? Say what? I think if the rivalry wasn't personal, Rafa would have congratulated Ferguson personally-as Ferguson has done with Wenger and Mourninho-instead of saying just praising the team and making attacks on SAF himself.

Also, note my argument about Arsenal and Wenger on the previous page, which no-one seems to have responded to; the argument being that Wenger could break our stronghold without spending the money we were

Benitez has offered the Ferguson family his personal assistance if they want it, as well as the assistance of Liverpool Football Club, while Darren Ferguson's son is at Alder Hey.

Taggart sends letters out every season to the managers of teams he wants to 'congratulate'. Although the rumours from within Liverpool are that Benitez found the ones he's received since 2005 have been arrogant and more about Taggart trying to establish himself as the top dog within English football. That's what Benitez has been basically saying since his 'rant'. Teams have been rolling over for the Mancs and Taggart's ability to pick and choose referees for Manc matches has gone too far. I can understand why Rafa has refused to compliment Taggart personally - he's paid sufficient respects to the Mancs as a club.

Wenger won the league by building upon Graham's defence. That's half the team already in place - and that was some defence in fairness. How many players that Benitez inherited would still get into his team now? Gerrard, Carra and Sami (if he were a bit younger!)? Kewell maybe if he hadn't been knobbled by injuries. He spent fairly heavily too in the early stages (relative for the times of course - nowadays it would count as peanuts).

Wouldn't call it a 'stranglehold' btw Leeds, Blackburn, Arsenal, Chelsea

 

[19-11-08]

i think we spend our money better. of course there are the times when we splash out majorly but some key parts of our squad were shrewd buys for not much money.
vidic-rock of our defence, in my opinion should have won pfa and writers award-seven mil
compared to martin skrtel who cost slightly less who is obviously not as good.
evra- great left back some poor form near the end of the season but if not best top 3 in the world fro left back. 5.5 mil
compared with fabio aurelio who despite being free is nowhere near as good.
ronaldo- you may hate him but he's undoubtedly a quality player- 12.2 million
compared with dirk kuyt 10 mil and he was a useless striker but alright on the right wing.

i reckon that means net if you hadn't bought those players and bought ours you would have spent 10 million more and who knows if you had those players you may have won the league.

it's unfair to say we only won because of money as we've bought a few bargains.

we obviously disagree about ngog and i doubt either of us will change our opinions.

i reckon in 2-3 season benitez will be gone. next year arsenal will improve a lot know wenger's gonna sort out his transfer policy and chelsea always cobble a decent title charge together so i don't believe this rubbish about liverpool have been constantly improving and next year you'll be even better.

 

[JDY]

i don't think n'gog is that badd, he's only young plus we aint seen enough of him this season to make a solid judgment on him
man some people seem to have forgot about the stupid signings united have made
Kleberson, Eric Djemba-Djemba, David Bellion, even Forlan who is pretty good now
list goes on . .

 

[thisisoverlord]

RE: This entire debate.

I've read this entire forum thread, hoping praying that I'd find a post that said everything I feel needs to be said, but alas I guess I'll have to say it myself.

Firstly, Money is one of the crucial keys to success in Football, Had Ferguson or Benitez or anyone been at a team like Sutton Utd they would have found it very difficult to become successful.

Secondly, Ferguson is a an amazing manager, but he's no Busby, Shankly, not because he's not as brilliant a manager as them but because he doesn't have the personality, the honesty or the integrity, though I'm not saying that Benitez has these qualities either, I'm merely saying that Busby and Shankly weren't just amazing managers they were good men who loved football and respected one another as well as the fans.

Indeed Shankly was known for responding to fans letters personally and even phoning them to discuss the games. I don't like Ferguson because he's arrogant and has a disrespect for the the game, and the goodwill within the game, he could win a million trophies but I don't think it's make me like him or respect him in the way I do with Busby or Shankly.

Thirdly, I've heard many people go on and on about Lucas Leiva being ****... right, Thats why he captained Gremio and the Brazil youth team (which Anderson was also a part of) and achieved a Bronze medal at the Olympics, not only that but he was instrumental in the taking apart of Man Utd at Old Trafford.

Many Man Utd supporters have said Liverpool have made some **** buys and somehow Feguson is some kind of visionary who can see a good player from a **** one.... two nouns for you... Massimo Taibi. (The funny part is apart from his flop at Man Utd he is actually a very good goalie) No one is immune from misjudging players potential in their team or the league they are in.

Fourthly, I think that "Rafa rant" and the whole list of "Fergusons Flagellations" over the years do nothing for the game itself, to be fair to Rafa he is Spanish and I think all he was trying to say is that Man United's reputation precedes them and this can affect both teams and referees either through fear or awe, which I think is a fair point but it was badly put, And I think we can forgive Ferguson as he is from Glasgow.

Fifthly, Patrick Evra is by no means in the top 3 Left Backs in the world, He is a good player at times, but crucially he shows a lack of defensive thinking when closing down players and lacks the skill to close them down effectively anyways, he has rarely turned over possession if the ball this season, something which I've seen Aurelio do quite often. Auerlio has been capped 6 times for Brazil and has a better pass completion ratio this season than Evra, He won the Paulitsa State Championship with Sao Paulo, was a Runner up in the Copa do Brazil, In Spain he was a Winner in La Liga twice, Uefa Cup and the European Super Cup. Auerlio has Played 202 games and scored 21 goals. Patrice Evra has 17 French caps, and has one 3 Premier Leagues, 2 league cups, UEFA Champions League, and the World Club cup, He has scored 8 goals in 360 appearances. To be fair there is very little difference between the two, accept that Evra is at a more successful club and Aurelio has been better this season and has overall more goals than Evra. If I had to choose I would take Aurelio, plainly he gets you more goals, completes more passes, is more confident, is better a set pieces, and performs in crucial games, Of course If I could choose Lizarazu, Maldini or Roberto Carlos then Evra and Aurelio would be left for dust!.

To argue that Vidic is the heart of the Man Utd defence at the expense of Rio Ferdinand is a complete joke, Vidic always looks shaky without Ferdinand near by, Vidic even said this himself on Soccer AM, He is a good player but not a patch on players like the great Oscar Ruggeri, Nesta, Beckenbaur, Puyol, Marquez, Carragher or even John Terry (I hate to say it but it's true) and he's certinaly shown that on occasions he can make silly mistakes and get too worked up, something which I've not seen Martin Skertl do yet.

Ronaldo? well he's no great, He's too arrogant, too moody and too dirty to ever be a "Great" he is an excellent player, but he'll never be great, Being great is being like Van Basten, Cruyff, Eusebio, Pele, Garrincha, Rivelinho, Messi, Ronaldo, Flamini, Baggio, Rossi, Rush. He's just not "Great" material, he's petulant, he cheats openely and as we saw in the world cup has no real loyalty to friends or colleagues. Even if you just take goals scored, look at Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima; 329 goals from 480 games, compare that to Christianos poultry 123 goals from 322 games even compared to Messi's 79 goals in 160 games he's not looking that great. So no he's good but he's not the best player in the world now, nor in the past, and I think his character will bar him form being in the same league as these other players.

Finally, and ultimately I think in all the midst of titles, money and transfers we forget the real joys of football, that is that on a Sunday afternoon you can enjoy a good match be it at Old Trafford or Liverpool, as fans we get so caught up in the rivalry that none of us can argue one way or the other without being prejudiced in some way, but to be fair I think some of the Language used here, mostly by trolling Man Utd supporters is a disgrace to their team and to themselves, I don't think Lucas or Anderson would talk about one another in such a way as I've seen it done here today.

 

[19-11-08]

i don't think n'gog is that badd, he's only young plus we aint seen enough of him this season to make a solid judgment on him
man some people seem to have forgot about the stupid signings united have made
Kleberson, Eric Djemba-Djemba, David Bellion, even Forlan who is pretty good now
list goes on . .

haven't forget them. all teams have had them.

 

[Zebedee]

Vidic was actually a Liverpool target but just as he was on the verge for signing for us, you lot came in and offered him double the wages. Such is life Skrtel is three years younger and a lot 'rawer' - he looks like he'll be a decent 'destroyer' to partner the more silky Agger. Not seen Skrtel turned inside out by a forward yet, but then few teams have a Torres to do that

Aurelio for me, every single time. Only disadvantage he's got over Evra is that he's a bit injury prone. But he's more solid defensively (you won't see him getting caught out time and time again) as well as being an excellent dead ball specialist. Much better all-round player than Evra - but then that's the fundamental difference in philosophies between Rafa and Taggart. Taggart buys specialists (and how we would have laughed if he'd bought Chapman as he intended to replace Dublin...) whereas Rafa is looking for a wider range of skills.

Ronaldo is a great individualist. He's also lazy and leaves you shorthanded in defence. Taggart likes his 'flair' players to stay up field - which is how you counter quickly, whereas Benitez likes all-round players who cover the defence as well as score goals. Tribute to Kuyt really that he's adapted his game so much to remain at the club. Kuyt also costs a lot less in wages than Ronaldo - about 5 million a year less!

We wouldn't have won the league with those players. Ronaldo would never have fitted in at Liverpool. I don't think he's got the self-critical ability needed to function within Benitez' team. Evra hasn't Dossena's pace but has all of his lack of positional awareness (and you lot play to try and minimise Evra's vulnerability - you know the Mancs are struggling when they move Park across to give Evra some backup but then that leaves Ronaldo stranded up field because O'Shea isn't a particularly good player/right back). Vidic is a straight swap for Skrtel, probably a better player because of the stage of development he's at though. We've not struggled defensively though - only lost two games all last season

It's definitely not unfair to say that the Mancs have benefited more than any other club because of money. Seriously it isn't. And it's an indictment on the rest of the league for not being able to play catch-up properly (as well as being an indictment of the greed of the Premier League - since it's foundation 60 of the current 72 Football League teams have been into administration at least once!). We put Souness in charge who managed to burn his way through the family silver buying such 'quality' as Julian Dicks etc. And because we didn't move forward with the times, we have never since been able to afford Veron sized mistakes. We couldn't really afford Julian Dicks' sized mistakes but there ya go

Don't know how long Benitez will remain with us. He's always said that he came to Liverpool because of the fans and the promise that he'd be given the opportunity to build a dynasty. Providing that the club remains loyal and remembers he's on a long-term project which is just beginning to show some success in the league, then I think he'll be at Liverpool until his bones ache and he feels he has taken the club as far as he can. Don't forget that Rafa's achievements have come with the backdrop of chronic instability behind the scenes for us. Imagine three years of the fuss you lot went through with the Irish businessmen but throw in on top a Chief Executive who is a control freak and thinks he knows more about football than the manager, and you might get some idea of what conditions have been like at Anfield.

 

[ajw]

Benitez has offered the Ferguson family his personal assistance if they want it, as well as the assistance of Liverpool Football Club, while Darren Ferguson's son is at Alder Hey.

Taggart sends letters out every season to the managers of teams he wants to 'congratulate'. Although the rumours from within Liverpool are that Benitez found the ones he's received since 2005 have been arrogant and more about Taggart trying to establish himself as the top dog within English football. That's what Benitez has been basically saying since his 'rant'. Teams have been rolling over for the Mancs and Taggart's ability to pick and choose referees for Manc matches has gone too far. I can understand why Rafa has refused to compliment Taggart personally - he's paid sufficient respects to the Mancs as a club.

Wenger won the league by building upon Graham's defence. That's half the team already in place - and that was some defence in fairness. How many players that Benitez inherited would still get into his team now? Gerrard, Carra and Sami (if he were a bit younger!)? Kewell maybe if he hadn't been knobbled by injuries. He spent fairly heavily too in the early stages (relative for the times of course - nowadays it would count as peanuts).

Wouldn't call it a 'stranglehold' btw Leeds, Blackburn, Arsenal, Chelsea

Fair play, I didn't know Benitez had done that.

I doubt we'll ever know what Ferguson fully says in his letters of congratulations, they are probably hardly heartfelt-but no-one else has complained about them . And ability to pick and choose referees? Come on Zeb we both know that's bs-I think Fergie moans too much for that to be the case! I still think its a personal thing between the two, moreso from Benitez. And by 'rollover' I hope you don't mean something match-fix (I could be totally wrong there but its hard to tell what you mean on here).

Yeah Wenger had most of that defence (although it was getting on) but to do the double in just his second season is something else, and he inherited a team that had finished 12th then 5th (not as good as it is now) in the past two seasons. Maybe the team Bentiez took over wasn't that special but it was still one that had won Domestic and European trophies, something Arsenal hadn't been doing. Yet wenger turned them into a title-challenging team immediately, something Benitez has only just managed to do.

And by stranglehold I meant in the years before and during Wenger arrived- you know, 1991-2 runners up, 92-3 Champs, 93-4 The double, 94-5 runners-up in both, 95-6 The double, 96-7, Champs.

 

[19-11-08]

I've read this entire forum thread, hoping praying that I'd find a post that said everything I feel needs to be said, but alas I guess I'll have to say it myself.

Firstly, Money is one of the crucial keys to success in Football, Had Ferguson or Benitez or anyone been at a team like Sutton Utd they would have found it very difficult to become successful.

Secondly, Ferguson is a an amazing manager, but he's no Busby, Shankly, not because he's not as brilliant a manager as them but because he doesn't have the personality, the honesty or the integrity, though I'm not saying that Benitez has these qaulities either, I'm mearly saying that Busby and Shankly weren't just amazing managers they were good men who loved football and respected one another as well as the fans.

Indeed Shankly was known for responding to fans letters personally and even phoning them to discuss the games. I don't like Ferguson because he's arrogant and has a disrespect for the the game, and the goodwill within the game, he could win a million trophies but I don't think it's make me like him or respect him in the way I do with Busby or Shankly.

Thirdly, I've heard many people go on and on about Lucas Leiva being ****... right, Thats why he captained Gremio and the Brazil youth team (which Anderson was also a part of) and achieved a Bronze medal at the Olympics, not only that but he was instramental in the taking apart of Man Utd at Old Trafford.

Many Man Utd supporters have said Liverpool have made some **** buys and somehow Feguson is some kind of visionary who can see a good player from a **** one.... two nouns for you... Massimo Taibi. (The funny part is apart from his flop at Man Utd he is actually a very good goalie) No one is immune from misjuding players potential in their team or the league they are in.

Fourthly, I think that "Rafa rant" and the whole list of "Fergusons Flagellations" over the years do nothing for the game itself, to be fair to Rafa he is Spanish and I think all he was trying to say is that Man United's reputation preceeds them and this can affect both teams and referees either through fear or awe, which I think is a fair point but it was badly put, And I think we can forgive Ferguson as he is from Glasgow.

Finally, and ultimatly I think in all the midst of titles, money and transfers we forget the real joys of football, that is that on a Sunday afternoon you can enjoy a good match be it at Old Trafford or Liverpool, as fans we get so caught up in the rivalry that none of us can argue one way or the other without being prejudiced in some way, but to be fair I think some of the Language used here, mostly by trolling Man Utd supporters is a disgrace to their team and to themselves, I don't think Lucas or Anderson would talk about one another in such a way as I've seen it done here today.

mate. you are a ****. swearing is just something that happens don't have cry about it.

agree with first one but ferguson did do extremely well with aberdeen with not a massive budget and to be fair to benitez he did similar with valencia but i don't know the size of his budget or the control he had.

second. i'm fine with you thinking shankly or busby is better but for those pathetic reasons. his personality. i'm sure you've spoken to ferguson many times and know he's some kind of evil *******. ferguson is a decent man. also it's a different era of football you can't expect benitez or ferguson to answer every single fan letter at a time when football has such a global reach.

anderson was in the same youth team as lucas and you'll probably know won the golden ball in the tournament. bullshit he was a major part of our defeat. gerrard was, torres was but lucas. he was only part of it because he was on the pitch.

can't be bothered responding to rest of your points.

 

[JDY]

haven't forget them. all teams have had them.

and yet u criticize liverpool for making a few bad signings when you've made a fair share yourself
you never know, n'gog might turn out to be a great signing(i doubt)
Its like most united fans getting a ***** over Macheda , 'Ohhhh he's the new ronaldo' NO. he's played like 3 games and everyones hyping him up so much
Just like n'gog , you can't say that he's bad, he's rarely played this season.

 

[19-11-08]

Vidic was actually a Liverpool target but just as he was on the verge for signing for us, you lot came in and offered him double the wages. Such is life Skrtel is three years younger and a lot 'rawer' - he looks like he'll be a decent 'destroyer' to partner the more silky Agger. Not seen Skrtel turned inside out by a forward yet, but then few teams have a Torres to do that

Aurelio for me, every single time. Only disadvantage he's got over Evra is that he's a bit injury prone. But he's more solid defensively (you won't see him getting caught out time and time again) as well as being an excellent dead ball specialist. Much better all-round player than Evra - but then that's the fundamental difference in philosophies between Rafa and Taggart. Taggart buys specialists (and how we would have laughed if he'd bought Chapman as he intended to replace Dublin...) whereas Rafa is looking for a wider range of skills.

Ronaldo is a great individualist. He's also lazy and leaves you shorthanded in defence. Taggart likes his 'flair' players to stay up field - which is how you counter quickly, whereas Benitez likes all-round players who cover the defence as well as score goals. Tribute to Kuyt really that he's adapted his game so much to remain at the club. Kuyt also costs a lot less in wages than Ronaldo - about 5 million a year less!

We wouldn't have won the league with those players. Ronaldo would never have fitted in at Liverpool. I don't think he's got the self-critical ability needed to function within Benitez' team. Evra hasn't Dossena's pace but has all of his lack of positional awareness (and you lot play to try and minimise Evra's vulnerability - you know the Mancs are struggling when they move Park across to give Evra some backup but then that leaves Ronaldo stranded up field because O'Shea isn't a particularly good player/right back). Vidic is a straight swap for Skrtel, probably a better player because of the stage of development he's at though. We've not struggled defensively though - only lost two games all last season

It's definitely not unfair to say that the Mancs have benefited more than any other club because of money. Seriously it isn't. And it's an indictment on the rest of the league for not being able to play catch-up properly (as well as being an indictment of the greed of the Premier League - since it's foundation 60 of the current 72 Football League teams have been into administration at least once!). We put Souness in charge who managed to burn his way through the family silver buying such 'quality' as Julian Dicks etc. And because we didn't move forward with the times, we have never since been able to afford Veron sized mistakes. We couldn't really afford Julian Dicks' sized mistakes but there ya go

Don't know how long Benitez will remain with us. He's always said that he came to Liverpool because of the fans and the promise that he'd be given the opportunity to build a dynasty. Providing that the club remains loyal and remembers he's on a long-term project which is just beginning to show some success in the league, then I think he'll be at Liverpool until his bones ache and he feels he has taken the club as far as he can. Don't forget that Rafa's achievements have come with the backdrop of chronic instability behind the scenes for us. Imagine three years of the fuss you lot went through with the Irish businessmen but throw in on top a Chief Executive who is a control freak and thinks he knows more about football than the manager, and you might get some idea of what conditions have been like at Anfield.

he buy's specialists. aurelio better than evra. better all round player. we only play park when we now evra will get double teamed not because he's **** defensively.

i'm not going to go through each point as i just responded to that ****** who supports palmeiras and i cannot be arsed. it is unfair. there's got to come a point where you just say congratulations and admit we won because over the season we were better.

---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

and yet u criticize liverpool for making a few bad signings when you've made a fair share yourself
you never know, n'gog might turn out to be a great signing(i doubt)
Its like most united fans getting a ***** over Macheda , 'Ohhhh he's the new ronaldo' NO. he's played like 3 games and everyones hyping him up so much
Just like n'gog , you can't say that he's bad, he's rarely played this season.

yeah fair enough. only really do it cus all of ours were 3 or 4 years ago in our transition phase while liverpools are happening now....robbie keane.

 

[Zebedee]

Fair play, I didn't know Benitez had done that.

I doubt we'll ever know what Ferguson fully says in his letters of congratulations, they are probably hardly heartfelt-but no-one else has complained about them . And ability to pick and choose referees? Come on Zeb we both know that's bs-I think Fergie moans too much for that to be the case! I still think its a personal thing between the two, moreso from Benitez. And by 'rollover' I hope you don't mean something match-fix (I could be totally wrong there but its hard to tell what you mean on here).

Absolutely not match-fix mate. I just mean the psychological approach teams have been taking when playing you lot. "A draw is a good result" etc. Which Benitez has been trying to overcome - he basically gave a blueprint on how to beat the Mancs after the 4-1, and after that teams started to score against that 'impregnable' defence. It's about overcoming other managers' and players' impression that the Mancs are unbeatable which then leads to them effectively not turning up on the day.

I've not yet seen a referee never ref a game for another club due to criticism from a manager. Only Taggart has had that effect. That's not good for the league and something which needs to be controlled. It's purely psychological - Don Revie intimidated referees in the same way, which is what Clough was trying to overcome.

Yeah, the 90s was a good decade for you lot. No doubt about it. But Blackburn showed that matching spending power meant that the Mancs finished with little. ****, even Newcastle pushed you close

 

[ajw]

And there I thought you'd give the credit to Daglish!

I've read this entire forum thread, hoping praying that I'd find a post that said everything I feel needs to be said, but alas I guess I'll have to say it myself.

Firstly, Money is one of the crucial keys to success in Football, Had Ferguson or Benitez or anyone been at a team like Sutton Utd they would have found it very difficult to become successful.

Secondly, Ferguson is a an amazing manager, but he's no Busby, Shankly, not because he's not as brilliant a manager as them but because he doesn't have the personality, the honesty or the integrity, though I'm not saying that Benitez has these qaulities either, I'm mearly saying that Busby and Shankly weren't just amazing managers they were good men who loved football and respected one another as well as the fans.

Indeed Shankly was known for responding to fans letters personally and even phoning them to discuss the games. I don't like Ferguson because he's arrogant and has a disrespect for the the game, and the goodwill within the game, he could win a million trophies but I don't think it's make me like him or respect him in the way I do with Busby or Shankly.

Thirdly, I've heard many people go on and on about Lucas Leiva being ****... right, Thats why he captained Gremio and the Brazil youth team (which Anderson was also a part of) and achieved a Bronze medal at the Olympics, not only that but he was instramental in the taking apart of Man Utd at Old Trafford.

Many Man Utd supporters have said Liverpool have made some **** buys and somehow Feguson is some kind of visionary who can see a good player from a **** one.... two nouns for you... Massimo Taibi. (The funny part is apart from his flop at Man Utd he is actually a very good goalie) No one is immune from misjuding players potential in their team or the league they are in.

Fourthly, I think that "Rafa rant" and the whole list of "Fergusons Flagellations" over the years do nothing for the game itself, to be fair to Rafa he is Spanish and I think all he was trying to say is that Man United's reputation preceeds them and this can affect both teams and referees either through fear or awe, which I think is a fair point but it was badly put, And I think we can forgive Ferguson as he is from Glasgow.

Finally, and ultimatly I think in all the midst of titles, money and transfers we forget the real joys of football, that is that on a Sunday afternoon you can enjoy a good match be it at Old Trafford or Liverpool, as fans we get so caught up in the rivalry that none of us can argue one way or the other without being prejudiced in some way, but to be fair I think some of the Language used here, mostly by trolling Man Utd supporters is a disgrace to their team and to themselves, I don't think Lucas or Anderson would talk about one another in such a way as I've seen it done here today.

Your're right about the bias and prejudice of fans, we'll never agree on most things.

To accuse Fergie of a lack of disrespect for the game is bonkers. The man bleeds football. Maybe disrespect to other opponents or refs, but most of his opponents he respects as well (maybe cos now half of them played for him-a sign of his ability-but whatver ). And like 19-11-08 said, Ferguson had success (immense success) with Aberdeen, as well as Stirling before Utd).

Vidic was actually a Liverpool target but just as he was on the verge for signing for us, you lot came in and offered him double the wages. Such is life Skrtel is three years younger and a lot 'rawer' - he looks like he'll be a decent 'destroyer' to partner the more silky Agger. Not seen Skrtel turned inside out by a forward yet, but then few teams have a Torres to do that

Aurelio for me, every single time. Only disadvantage he's got over Evra is that he's a bit injury prone. But he's more solid defensively (you won't see him getting caught out time and time again) as well as being an excellent dead ball specialist. Much better all-round player than Evra - but then that's the fundamental difference in philosophies between Rafa and Taggart. Taggart buys specialists (and how we would have laughed if he'd bought Chapman as he intended to replace Dublin...) whereas Rafa is looking for a wider range of skills.

We wouldn't have won the league with those players. Ronaldo would never have fitted in at Liverpool. I don't think he's got the self-critical ability needed to function within Benitez' team. Evra hasn't Dossena's pace but has all of his lack of positional awareness (and you lot play to try and minimise Evra's vulnerability - you know the Mancs are struggling when they move Park across to give Evra some backup but then that leaves Ronaldo stranded up field because O'Shea isn't a particularly good player/right back). Vidic is a straight swap for Skrtel, probably a better player because of the stage of development he's at though. We've not struggled defensively though - only lost two games all last season

I guess we'll never agree on Evra-he's one of the best in the world imo0you don't establish yourself as automic pick for a title winning team three years on the trot, as well as a CL winning team without being good. he also displaced a massive fans' favourite (at the time) in Heinze to get into the team. I guess Aurelio is all-round when he's rotated with Dossena and Insua alot (maybe its cos of the injuries) but I don't think he is >> Evra. And Park has played on the right and left, along with ronny, its part of our squads adaptability-shame Kuyt and Riera don't have that talent. Park is usually picked for his work rate, and that includes helping the full backs but it aint because Evra is poor.

 

[19-11-08]

Absolutely not match-fix mate. I just mean the psychological approach teams have been taking when playing you lot. "A draw is a good result" etc. Which Benitez has been trying to overcome - he basically gave a blueprint on how to beat the Mancs after the 4-1, and after that teams started to score against that 'impregnable' defence. It's about overcoming other managers' and players' impression that the Mancs are unbeatable which then leads to them effectively not turning up on the day.

I've not yet seen a referee never ref a game for another club due to criticism from a manager. Only Taggart has had that effect. That's not good for the league and something which needs to be controlled. It's purely psychological - Don Revie intimidated referees in the same way, which is what Clough was trying to overcome.

Yeah, the 90s was a good decade for you lot. No doubt about it. But Blackburn showed that matching spending power meant that the Mancs finished with little. ****, even Newcastle pushed you close

tiny thing. the blueprint of how to beat manchester united was rubbish. our impegnable defence had failed to keep a cleanshhet in the two prem games before that also what was thee blueprint lump the ball upfield and hope united have a **** game as well as having players of the calibre of torres and gerrard. what a blue print. the reason our form dropped was confidence was seriouslly lowered by losing 4-1 at home against our rivals.

And like 19-11-08 said

i may just cry. someone referring to what isay and not disagreeing.:'(^^)

 

[JDY]

Yep, have to agree with these united fans on that one. Im a Chelsea fan and Evra is better than Aurelio, Probly the best LB in the league , maybe even world.