Ride The Walrus
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Major downs to the MP playing on his phone when the names of the 96 were being read out yesterday.
The Liverpool Thread
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Chokopop
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Hey guys.
Please sign this petition to get The Sun to release it's "The Truth" sources and documents. Petition to force the Sun newspaper to release its Hillsborough "The Truth" sources and documents - e-petitions
Please sign this petition to get The Sun to release it's "The Truth" sources and documents. Petition to force the Sun newspaper to release its Hillsborough "The Truth" sources and documents - e-petitions
Liverpool's Luis Suárez may be in clear due to lack of a United witness | Football | The Guardian
Luis Suárez increasingly looks like he will not face any charges from the Football Association unless Patrice Evra can produce witness statements to support his allegation that he was racially abused during Manchester United's 1-1 draw at Liverpool last weekend.
The FA is planning to send a delegate to Manchester to interview Evra, possibly on Thursday, now that he is back in the country following the Champions League tie against Otelul Galati.
However, the case may rest on whether any of Evra's team-mates can corroborate his accusation that Suárez repeatedly racially abused him. The Uruguayan has vehemently denied the allegation, with the support of his club, and the FA needs to determine whether it is simply one man's word against another's. If that is the case, there may be nowhere further for the investigation to go.
The FA can also study television pictures but it would be highly unusual if it were to bring in lip-readers, and the inquiry will instead focus initially on what precisely the Senegal-born Frenchman claims was said, and whether his allegations can be backed up.
Evra had claimed on French TV that it happened "at least 10 times", but his case is undermined by the fact he did not bring the allegation to the attention of the referee, Andre Marriner, during the match.
The first Marriner knew of it was afterwards when Evra, accompanied by Sir Alex Ferguson, went to the referee's room to ask him to include it in his match report. Marriner then told the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, who spoke to Suárez and established that the Uruguayan denied the allegation.
Liverpool's belief is that if the case cannot be proved the FA should consider taking action against Evra on the grounds that it was a malicious allegation. This is unlikely to happen, however, unless there is categorical evidence that Suárez did not do what Evra claims.
A more likely outcome is that the case will be dropped if there are no other United players to support Evra's story. If that is the case, the FA may not even interview Suárez, having already been made aware from the Liverpool end that the allegation is denied. The FA is particularly sensitive to the rivalry between the clubs and eager not to be seen to be making any rash judgments.
However, anti-racism campaign groups such as Kick It Out believe Evra should have approached the referee during the game. Kick It Out launched its three-week 'One Game, One Community' action programme last weekend, and the row between Evra and Suárez came on the same day that both players wore T-shirts to promote the campaign.
Luis Suárez increasingly looks like he will not face any charges from the Football Association unless Patrice Evra can produce witness statements to support his allegation that he was racially abused during Manchester United's 1-1 draw at Liverpool last weekend.
The FA is planning to send a delegate to Manchester to interview Evra, possibly on Thursday, now that he is back in the country following the Champions League tie against Otelul Galati.
However, the case may rest on whether any of Evra's team-mates can corroborate his accusation that Suárez repeatedly racially abused him. The Uruguayan has vehemently denied the allegation, with the support of his club, and the FA needs to determine whether it is simply one man's word against another's. If that is the case, there may be nowhere further for the investigation to go.
The FA can also study television pictures but it would be highly unusual if it were to bring in lip-readers, and the inquiry will instead focus initially on what precisely the Senegal-born Frenchman claims was said, and whether his allegations can be backed up.
Evra had claimed on French TV that it happened "at least 10 times", but his case is undermined by the fact he did not bring the allegation to the attention of the referee, Andre Marriner, during the match.
The first Marriner knew of it was afterwards when Evra, accompanied by Sir Alex Ferguson, went to the referee's room to ask him to include it in his match report. Marriner then told the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, who spoke to Suárez and established that the Uruguayan denied the allegation.
Liverpool's belief is that if the case cannot be proved the FA should consider taking action against Evra on the grounds that it was a malicious allegation. This is unlikely to happen, however, unless there is categorical evidence that Suárez did not do what Evra claims.
A more likely outcome is that the case will be dropped if there are no other United players to support Evra's story. If that is the case, the FA may not even interview Suárez, having already been made aware from the Liverpool end that the allegation is denied. The FA is particularly sensitive to the rivalry between the clubs and eager not to be seen to be making any rash judgments.
However, anti-racism campaign groups such as Kick It Out believe Evra should have approached the referee during the game. Kick It Out launched its three-week 'One Game, One Community' action programme last weekend, and the row between Evra and Suárez came on the same day that both players wore T-shirts to promote the campaign.
Snap judgments in the Patrice Evra-Luis Suárez dispute help no one
All accusations of racism should be taken seriously, but all players are innocent until proven guilty – contrary to what you may have read
All accusations of racism should be taken seriously, but all players are innocent until proven guilty – contrary to what you may have read
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- Marina Hyde
- guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 19 October 2011 23.00 BST Article history
Liverpool's Luis Suarez, left, and Patrice Evra of Manchester United clashed during Saturday's Premier League match at Anfield. Photograph: Phil Noble/Reuters
Is there anything less appealing than the absolute moral certainty with which some Liverpool fans automatically dismissed Patrice Evra's claim that he was racially abused, and some Manchester United fans automatically wrote off Luis Suárez as a racist, despite neither faction having any way of knowing for sure what actually happened on the pitch on Saturday? Actually, yes. There is something less appealing. It is Her Majesty's Press larding on the hints of the insta‑judgment to which they have come on the matter.
"Malice" just happened to be the first word of the Telegraph's match report, while the Mail claimed Evra had been "left isolated". Both were fairly typical. This newspaper ran a poll in which the question was termed: "Should Evra be banned if his claim proves false?"
Mm. I'm rather sorry we missed the chance to run something similar a few days into the Dominique Strauss-Kahn business. "If the hotel maid's claim is proved false," it might have read, "should she be deported?" Let's hope that in the future, media organisations seeking new revenue streams will explore the possibility of lucrative, X Factor-style phone polling on these hot-button issues. Text the word MARTYR to 80051, or UPPITY to 80052.
Votes will cost 25p from a mobile, but the cost to society may be considerably more. It should go without saying that fostering a culture in which a player – any player – feels able to raise allegations of racism without fear of an instant backlash is of interest to all right-thinking fans, no matter which team they support. It should go without saying, but it unfortunately doesn't, which is why Kick It Out was launching its latest three-week campaign at Saturday's game. As it turned out, the match will function as a curtain-raiser to an FA investigation into Evra's claims.
Ideally, the FA would have come out with an immediate statement along the lines of: "All accusations of racism are taken seriously, but all players are innocent until proven guilty." Instead they muttered something about "making inquiries", which downgrades the principles at stake. Indeed, it's clear many still regard any such official complaints as breaking ranks, as exemplified by the former United player Paul Parker, who wrote this week that Evra shouldn't have caused "a public fuss", but just mentioned it informally to Kenny Dalglish.
Yet the real required reading on the issues raised by this current storm is a 2007 Mail interview with Manchester City's Joleon Lescott, in which the then Everton player recalled his experience of making an allegation of racism to the FA. Lescott submitted that the Newcastle midfielder Emre Belezoglu had called Joseph Yobo a "******* negro", while his team-mate Tim Howard submitted that he had heard "******* ******". It was this disparity that led to the allegation being deemed unproven. Lescott was furious, as he had been all along. On the match day, he felt both clubs were trying to play down the alleged incident. He bridled that the players were advised not to say anything to the media. But the FA hearing disillusioned Lescott most. "It felt like we were on trial as much as Emre was," he said. "I felt hurt by it, having gone to the trouble of making a complaint, attending the hearing, making a stand." He said he had spoken to many black players who had endured "a lot worse", and that he would think twice before wearing a Kick It Out shirt again.
Lescott gave that interview in 2007. What a long way we haven't come since – and those fixating on what they deem to be Evra's character will ensure any progress remains glacial. In football as in wider society, there are far too many people who claim that the real issue isn't racism, but people making false accusations of racism, just as there are plenty of people who prefer to think that false accusations of rape are more of a problem than rape itself. They aren't.
Deliberately or not, too many miss the big picture, which is that any accusation of racism should be dignified, so that the next person who might have cause to make one sees that a fair hearing is at least a possibility. Naturally, the investigating authorities may find it unproven or malicious. But no incident should be blithely and hastily written off by people not in possession of all the evidence and testimony, but who reckon the accuser may be a wrong 'un. The apparent failure to realise this – even among people who would consider themselves intelligent observers of the game – illustrates how very far football and the society it reflects has to go.
Even if Evra's claim is thrown out by the FA because it is can't be verified by a third party, the damage to Luis is done now; in many fans' eyes the man is an unconfirmed racist & he'll be villified wherever he appears in this country. I expect that perhaps even the black players at his own club & fellow Uruguayan international teamates will look at him very differently from now on. 
Even if Evra's claim is thrown out by the FA because it is can't be verified by a third party, the damage to Luis is done now; in many fans' eyes the man is an unconfirmed racist & he'll be villified wherever he appears in this country. I expect that perhaps even the black players at his own club & fellow Uruguayan international teamates will look at him very differently from now on.
It goes both ways. Liverpool fans were very quick to brand Evra as having "history" even though he actually doesnt.
I'd say now being classed as a racist is a bit worse.
He shouldnt be classed as anything. This is the problem with both sides
Ride The Walrus
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Should've been kept private, now Suarez'll be eternally known as a racist, and Evra classed as whatever he is
The privacy is irrelevant imo, it doesn't prevent football fans from having the ability to think beyond their own clubs. The article is bang on, shows how far football, and the society, it appeals to has to go.
Not at all, Suarez is now thought of as a racist, if it had been done privately (and it should have) then it would have been better for both parties. Luis is close friends with Abel Hernandez and Uruguay have a few black players in the national team. I'm sure (even if the claim is false) that the players who don't maybe know him as well will be a bit ****** off. Wonder what Glen Johnson thinks of it all.
Most likely it will be inconclusive, and in the minds of some on both sides it will simmer on for a long time
Probably. To be honest, wouldn't be surprised if either of them were lying. Evra's a bit of a ****, and Suarez is hardly the world's nicest bloke.
The bit in bold is a real problem, because thats how people are drawing down on this on both sides, they'd rather character assasinate than properly look at situation
Luckily, since I'm a neutral, I can take a level-headed look at the situation and reserve judgement.
Unlike all of you biased *****.
Chokopop
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Luckily, since I'm a neutral, I can take a level-headed look at the situation and reserve judgement.
Unlike all of you biased *****.
Depends.. Most people have an opinion on either. Who do you hate more Suarez or Evra? Liverpool or United?
99% would be able to answer that one, if they are a fan of either clubs or not
Depends.. Most people have an opinion on either. Who do you hate more Suarez or Evra? Liverpool or United?
99% would be able to answer that one, if they are a fan of either clubs or not
Dislike both Suarez and Evra equally, quite like Liverpool but Ash Young plays for United so it's another dead heat.
Toadally unbiased guise!
Chokopop
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Dislike both Suarez and Evra equally, quite like Liverpool but Ash Young plays for United so it's another dead heat.
Toadally unbiased guise!
Well.. I guess you're the most unbiased person on base on this matter then