The Liverpool Thread

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We conceded less than a goal a game from Christmas onwards and still created chances. My point is that we did perform but finishing was really bad. You can't win it when your only striker goes on a 14 game dry spell. I don't say injuries are an excuse. We conceded under a goal a game and still created the most high quality chances in the second half of the season. If he had another striker we would have won it. That was the difference.

I love how you try and rationalise it, face it you ****** it yet again, you wont have a better chance, there wont be another season were all the big boys **** up again.

And basically what you are saying here any of the other teams could have said

If Pool had a pre-season under Klopp
If Man City hadn't had an awful away record
If United hadn't been so ponderous in attack
If Chelsea hadn't imploded
If Saints hadn't sold all their top players
If Spurs hadn't been so slow in getting going
If Martinez was a bit more tactically astute

etc etc, its the stupidest excuse ever, you was not the best team in the league because Leicester had an 11 point lead on you and everty team could think what if, its boring
 
I love how you try and rationalise it, face it you ****** it yet again, you wont have a better chance, there wont be another season were all the big boys **** up again.

And basically what you are saying here any of the other teams could have said

If Pool had a pre-season under Klopp
If Man City hadn't had an awful away record
If United hadn't been so ponderous in attack
If Chelsea hadn't imploded
If Saints hadn't sold all their top players
If Spurs hadn't been so slow in getting going
If Martinez was a bit more tactically astute

etc etc, its the stupidest excuse ever, you was not the best team in the league because Leicester had an 11 point lead on you and everty team could think what if, its boring
Exactly no matter what happens throughout the season the final table never lies. The best and most consistent side always win.
 
I love how you try and rationalise it, face it you ****** it yet again, you wont have a better chance, there wont be another season were all the big boys **** up again.....

I'm glad for him he doesn't go watch Arsenal regularly as the situation over Wenger is getting SO toxic among the fans this sort of 'defence' (term used VERY loosely) would doubtless lead him into quite a few dodgy situations to put it mildly.
 
I'm glad for him he doesn't go watch Arsenal regularly as the situation over Wenger is getting SO toxic among the fans this sort of 'defence' (term used VERY loosely) would doubtless lead him into quite a few dodgy situations to put it mildly.

pretty sure at this point Damola is Wenger's Publicist
 
You guys need to take a breather. In my opinion, damola is OTT on quite a few things and its not always related to Arsenal. While he may be wrong, I certainly would not say he is biased. Also instead of just resorting to dismissing him, it would be good if you guys actually rebutted his posts head on.

I like him. He is an optimistic Arsenal fan. Thats a hugely rare species these days.
 
We conceded less than a goal a game from Christmas onwards and still created chances. My point is that we did perform but finishing was really bad. You can't win it when your only striker goes on a 14 game dry spell. I don't say injuries are an excuse. We conceded under a goal a game and still created the most high quality chances in the second half of the season. If he had another striker we would have won it. That was the difference.

Every team can make their own excuses as to why they were not top of the table damola. I would say its Wengers fault for not bringing in a top class striker for so many seasons. Even a clown in the pub knows that you cannot win a title with Giroud leading the line.
 
You guys need to take a breather. In my opinion, damola is OTT on quite a few things and its not always related to Arsenal. While he may be wrong, I certainly would not say he is biased. Also instead of just resorting to dismissing him, it would be good if you guys actually rebutted his posts head on.

I like him. He is an optimistic Arsenal fan. Thats a hugely rare species these days.

His optimism isn't even the problem. It's just that his opinions are questionable but at the end of the day it is his opinion.
 
I love how you try and rationalise it, face it you ****** it yet again, you wont have a better chance, there wont be another season were all the big boys **** up again.

And basically what you are saying here any of the other teams could have said

If Pool had a pre-season under Klopp
If Man City hadn't had an awful away record
If United hadn't been so ponderous in attack
If Chelsea hadn't imploded
If Saints hadn't sold all their top players
If Spurs hadn't been so slow in getting going
If Martinez was a bit more tactically astute

etc etc, its the stupidest excuse ever, you was not the best team in the league because Leicester had an 11 point lead on you and everty team could think what if, its boring

I don't see what your point is. Of course there's a reason why every team didn't win the league. How are you supposed to know how to win it if you don't rationalise it? I said that our title challenge depends on how our strikers do and someone said that we don't have enough quality do win the league overall. I disputed this and pointed out that we defended very well and created high quality chances at one of the highest rates in PL history. You claimed that the only reason we finished so high was that the big teams ****** up. I pointed out that the overall quality of our play was title winning by historical standards if you exclude woeful finishing.

Leicester won the league because they defended like the average top 8 side, scored first in games and their striker had an elite season. I would say that saying that we didn't win the league because we didn't have a striker is a fair analysis. How did we concede the 11 point lead to Leicester? We couldn't hit a barn door and Leicester could.

There seems to be an idea that Leicester won because the big boys ****** up. Looking at his shot maps, Vardy had an elite season with Mahrez and Leicester only conceded 8 goals in the second half of the season. They only lost 3 games which is usually reminiscent of a totally dominant side. Leicester had the season of a title winning team in terms of quality. The biggest factor wasn't bigger teams ******* up. This is also a myth.
 
pretty sure at this point Damola is Wenger's Publicist
I wasn't optimistic. I wasn't even defending Arsene Wenger. He should have had a plan B last season and brought the players earlier. I wasn't very optimistic going into the season until we signed a striker. There's no excuse for that.

I was merely pointing out that last season was very good by historical accounts despite throwing it all away. We had a shocking finishing slump which is as a result of us not having enough striking options.
 
Every team can make their own excuses as to why they were not top of the table damola. I would say its Wengers fault for not bringing in a top class striker for so many seasons. Even a clown in the pub knows that you cannot win a title with Giroud leading the line.
That's literally what I've been saying. The failure to sign a striker. You make it sound like I justified our failure to sign a striker. I wasn't even optimistic. I'm just looking at the evidence. There was no significant regression towards the end of last season in anything but finishing.
 
I can see what you're saying Damola, but I just want to ask about this.

You said last season you didn't win because you had no striker, but you also said that this season there's no reason you can't win. Surely the fact that you still have the same set of forwards that misfired so badly last season, is a reason in itself?
 
Moving on from the pointless 'what if' talk of last season .....

..... Pretty happy with L'pool's start this. (Cue zz to ask how you can possibly be happy with 4 points from 9 and two games off the early pacesetters already ..... )

Burnley is the game that skews outsiders (and the completely over reactionary among L'pool's support that continues to manifest itself embarrassingly on twitter in particular) views on the first month of the season. Bur that's the anomaly to the the other three as to how L'pool will play all this year. To be disappointed to not have 2 wins out of 2 after going to both Arsenal and Tottenham and playing so well is a great sign. And but for **** poor officiating, and more composure/ luck yesterday,, we'd of got the win we deserved. Won't be too many teams feeling like that after visits to North London and if they do, they'll of done brilliantly too. We've seen enough in spells through some of the attacking play to see we'll be goal laden this year. And the defence is looking stronger by the passing game the more players return. Matip and Lovren look an excellent partnership the making the middle. Milner has steadily settled and improved each game at LB to suggest he'll at least be a solid option for now. All with Can to return after the break who as seen again at Burton totally changes the complexion of the midfield 3 and Karius (fingers crossed) not too long after to solidify the 'keeping position. And if Mane keeps up his current rate, he's fixing to be the buy of the entire window.

Burnley was the one negative. But nine times out of ten you at the least don't lose that game dominating to such an extent. Lesson's to be learnt about quicker movement, patience, and decisions the final third which will come on a consistent basis. But so many positives to take from the other three, not least yesterday. When you're frustrated far more than ****** as you can see what they're trying to do that's a great sign in itself for me.

Not even narked there's a break for Internationals as it just builds up anticipation for the long awaited first home league game against the Champions no less a week Saturday tea time. Can't wait for that and a first look at the new stand.

Far more positives than negatives the first 4 games to reinforce that this is going to be one heck of a fun year that could well turn out to be one of the most memorable for many of them.

Can't wait for Leicester. Up the pool. Mighty reds!
 
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I'm glad for him he doesn't go watch Arsenal regularly as the situation over Wenger is getting SO toxic among the fans this sort of 'defence' (term used VERY loosely) would doubtless lead him into quite a few dodgy situations to put it mildly.
I don't go to away games. Just some home games. I know some of the fanbase are divided. It seems you have misinterpreted what I think of Arsenal and last season.

Last season, we knew that we needed a striker before the end of the window. After Welbeck was injured for 6 months, there was no excuse for even getting a decent one after failing to sign our top targets. Until Christmas, we had an unsustainable hot streak with Giroud having half a season of an elite striker. After Christmas, there was a slight regression however we still created chances at a league high rate and conceded under a goal a game. Giroud went on a 14 game dry run and his confidence was show. With Welbeck out for 9 months and no alternatives up top we didn't score enough goals and nobody could hit a barn door. Wenger's failure to sign a decent striker backfired and there's no excuse for this. All the more disappointing because we played like a title winning team. Opta found amazingly that we were one of the only teams in Europe so see no regression in chance creation whether winning or losing. We clearly did something right. What we see is that is we'd finished properly, the season would have been better than many previous title winning teams in terms of quality. We undershot expected goals by 12. If we'd finished like we did the first half, we'd have scored as many if not more than Liverpool and City 13/14.

Up to next season. After the Xhaka signing, I expected the business to be wrapped up quickly. After the failure to get Vardy, we dithered and pontificated in getting striker and defender. We spent an entire month in negotiating the £2.5 Million signing of Rob Holding then spent ages trying to beat down Lyon's asking price of £40 Million. After a bid of £60 Million. As a result of our dithering, Lyon doubled the asking price to £60 million!

It seems we had been targeting a defensive midfielder all summer and started negotiating in pre-season after the injury of Merteacker. We could have gotten him for 20-30 Million but dithered and then Gabriel got injured. Valencia then had us by the balls and wanted us to pay the £42 Million buyout clause. We ended up paying close to that.

Signing Lucas Perez is a risk. Averaged 1 in 2 in La Liga and assisted 10 for the not so great anymore Deportivo La Coruna. If we don't regress from last season then on the basis of the quality of our play, we should at least finish in the top 3 if our strikers are firing. A lot of it revolves on how well Perez adapts. I think that's a fair analysis.

I'm somewhere in the middle. The failure last year was all Wenger's fault. On the other hand, the negativity has been exaggerated in relation to our performances last season. Looking objectively, we were pretty good, We just didn't score enough. If we fail to push to the last day of the season, the only likely outcome will be due to our strikers misfiring. That would be as a result for Wenger dithering earlier in the summer where Lacazette was available at £40 Million. Therefore, our title hopes depend on how well Perez adapts. I think that's fair to say.

Before we signed a striker, I couldn't see us failing to make the top 4 unless we has a serious regression from last season. At the same time, I knew that we couldn't win it with only Olivier Giroud. Therefore, I wasn't too optimistic. We know that the main area needed to win the title was a striker. We don't know how Perez will adapt so I have concluded that realistically, if he's bad then worst case top 4 and if he's as good as he was in La Liga last season then we should at least push for the title into the final games of the season.
 
Sound. Nice to know you get to watch your team live when you can. I'll remember that.

But I've moved on from the Arsenal talk. Last year was last year.
 
Moving on from the pointless 'what if' talk of last season .....

..... Pretty happy with L'pool's start this. (Cue zz to ask how you can possibly be happy with 4 points from 9 and two games off the early pacesetters already ..... )

Burnley was the one negative. But nine times out of ten you at the least don't lose that game dominating to such an extent. Lesson's to be learnt about quicker movement, patience, and decisions the final third which will come on a consistent basis. But so many positives to take from the other three, not least yesterday. When you're frustrated far more than ****** as you can see what they're trying to do that's a great sign in itself for me.

Not even narked there's a break for Internationals as it just builds up anticipation for the long awaited first home league game against the Champions no less a week Saturday tea time. Can't wait for that and a first look at the new stand.

Far more positives than negatives the first 4 games to reinforce that this is going to be one heck of a fun year that could well turn out to be one of the most memorable for many of them.

Can't wait for Leicester. Up the pool. Mighty reds!
Liverpool can definitely make top 4. There are a few big factors:
1)A big factor in last season was the failure for Sturridge to be fit. I think Klopp must play him. If he doesn't, it's crazy because Sturridge is the second best in the league.

2) Keeping Coutinho fit. Liverpool had the 7th best shot ratio in Europe last season, however had the 2nd lowest quality shots behind Bournemouth. Coutinho is among the best in Europe at creating high quality chances.

3) Reducing shot volume - Sturridge has the shot volume of an elite striker but it's till way above the bounds of reason Coutinho had the most shots outside the box per 90 in the league last season. His shots are generally low quality chances from poor angles. He needs to stop wasting the ball. Lionel Messi's shot maps show he's very efficient. He only shoots when close to the box and in central areas. If it isn't good for Messi, shooting aimlessly from distance sure isn't good for Coutinho.

4) With a fully fit team, Klopp's team were the hardest to complete passes on the pitch and in danger areas in the league. It wasn't a fundamental problem with how the team was set up. There were too many defensive errors. Matip was in the Whoscored Bundesliga 11 last season so he must be good. He has more Bundesilga than Koscielny has Premier league minutes. Moreno is good going forward but defensively inconsistent. Whoever Matip's partner must gain some consistency.

5) Keeper - Mignolet undershoots expected saves by a mile. This means that he's a below average premier league keeper. It's an embarrassment. Even a bench keeper like David Ospina overshoots expected saves and is comfortably better than most prem keepers. The good news is that Karius exceeded his in the Bundesliga and if he scales well, he should be better than most in the league.
 
On Sturridge, he needs to get out of his nark and adapt his game if he wants to play more because he just doesn't fit into the fluidity of movement through the front three. Both in attacking possession and in attacking-defence. No reason why he can't as he's a fantastically gifted , intelligent footballer and by far and away the best goalscorer at the club. Don't personally think there's a better centre forward in the PL outside of Augero considering Ibrahimovic is on the downside of his career at 35.

But right now, certainly the big games, he's where most would have him the pecking order. Behind Firmino and Origi.

It's there for Daniel if he wants it but it's on him how it plays out.
 
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On Sturridge, he needs to get out of his nark and adapt his game if he wants to play more because he just doesn't fit into the fluidity of movement through the front three. Both in attacking possession and in attacking-defence. No reason why he can't as he's a fantastically gifted , intelligent footballer and by far and away the best goalscorer at the club. Don't personally think there's a better centre forward in the PL outside of Augero considering Ibrahimovic is on the downside of his career at 35.

But right now, certainly the big games, he's where most would have him the pecking order. Behind Firmino and Origi.

It's there for Daniel if he wants it but it's on him how it plays out.
Even Guardiola has found a place from Aguero who wouldn't have the intensity for Klopp's liking. Sturridge is easily the second best striker and the league and an elite striker. Easy to criticise someone always injured. He is easily the best player at Liverpool. If he was available by deadline, I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger tries to sign him. I think that Sturridge is too good of a goalscorer to leave out.

Firmino has potential but he isn't a shot monster and can be wasteful with the ball at times. There were few in the league last season at winning the ball high up the pitch. He needs development though. I personally like Origi but doesn't stack up to Sturridge.
 
All doesn't alter the fact Firmino and Origi fit the team far better.

That fluidity of movement that had the Tottenham defence in fits yesterday (which ironically for this broke down when Origi came on for Coutinho as he just had a real poor outing) wouldn't of been anything like the same with Daniel in there.

It's on him how this will play out. He'll get his share of games. But they probably won't be him starting the big ones until he adapts.
 
All doesn't alter the fact Firmino and Origi fit the team far better.

That fluidity of movement that had the Tottenham defence in fits yesterday (which ironically for this broke down when Origi came on for Coutinho as he just had a real poor outing) wouldn't of been anything like the same with Daniel in there.

It's on him how this will play out. He'll get his share of games. But they probably won't be him starting the big ones until he adapts.
any news on a lb mate and after seeing motd how you did not win i dont know wait i do that clown in the nets
 
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