The Liverpool Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

What was with greeting the coach? Not sure we've ever done that before a premier league game before, but I like the idea.

Didn't see it. Walked all around and had a good look at everything around 3/ half 3, and crowds were building up then. Some over officious stewards making sure nobody was on the concourse up the steps over the players entrance. Then went the pub. Me mate stayed with his young lad and said it was pretty sedate as the bus just whizzed through and under the stand but all the main stuff went off back down Anny Road by the King Harry. There's a few vids floating around where you can't see the bus for all the pyro.

 

[PatrickLFC]

View attachment 128361

A lot of them would have been against Burnley, but he's doing something right! Far more important than many people realise

 

[Tezzz]

Didn't see it. Walked all around and had a good look at everything around 3/ half 3, and crowds were building up then. Some over officious stewards making sure nobody was on the concourse up the steps over the players entrance. Then went the pub. Me mate stayed with his young lad and said it was pretty sedate as the bus just whizzed through and under the stand but all the main stuff went off back down Anny Road by the King Harry. There's a few vids floating around where you can't see the bus for all the pyro.

Was at King Harry for the Villareal game. Unreal mate. I'd rather we stayed there welcoming the team, it all seems a bit strict nearer the ground with the stewards and the health & safety briefings.

Yeah the new TV angles are mad. I've only just got the chance to watch MOTD. Nice to see Hendo finally turning up with some decent through balls.

Don't see all the hype with Mignolet again... he made some saves. That's what the average premier league goalkeeper does. Still the usual blunders with him coming for a punch and getting nowhere near it before the ball hit the bar. Then his simple pass to Clyne that somehow he got wrong. Unbelievable.

And that ******* Mane... what a player. Quick as **** man.

 

[damola3]

Was at King Harry for the Villareal game. Unreal mate. I'd rather we stayed there welcoming the team, it all seems a bit strict nearer the ground with the stewards and the health & safety briefings.

Yeah the new TV angles are mad. I've only just got the chance to watch MOTD. Nice to see Hendo finally turning up with some decent through balls.

Don't see all the hype with Mignolet again... he made some saves. That's what the average premier league goalkeeper does. Still the usual blunders with him coming for a punch and getting nowhere near it before the ball hit the bar. Then his simple pass to Clyne that somehow he got wrong. Unbelievable.

And that ******* Mane... what a player. Quick as **** man.

Mignolet is a below average keeper statistically. He undershoots his expected saves. To make it simple, expected saves is a metric which measures the average number of saves made against shots of a particular quality. So it takes into accounts distance, angle, attack speed and other variables. It's hard to use stats to analyse goalies but newer statistical models are becoming more accurate.

It's important to recognise that few clubs take analytics very seriously. Arsenal have the biggest head start in world football while Liverpool have a Director of Research. Spurs and Southampton apparently have things going on.

Liverpool's signings seem to have this approach. Karius looks like a signing straight from the analytics department. Mignonette profiles like an average keeper while Karius appeared to be among the best in the Bundesliga. He seems to be way ahead of the mean in this model. If he's half as good in the prem, he should easily be an upgrade.

Mane looks very good. He had the second highest Xg of all in the league behind Alexis Sanchez overall and inside the box. Last season he scored 11 goals but his Xg was 15.51. He would have scored 15 or 16 in the league if he finished like an average forward. Same with Alexis Sanchez who vastly undershot his by scoring just 13 league goals. If he stays fit and finishes okay, he would be a 15 league goal attacking midfielder.

[TABLE="width: 599"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 144"]Goalkeeper[/TD]
[TD="width: 77"]Saves[/TD]
[TD="width: 117"]Expected Saves[/TD]
[TD="width: 87"]Saves Above Expected[/TD]
[TD="width: 87"]Average Difficulty[/TD]
[TD="width: 87"]Prob avg. keeper < X[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Loris Karius[/TD]
[TD]327[/TD]
[TD]321.3[/TD]
[TD]5.66[/TD]
[TD]0.271[/TD]
[TD]71%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Simon Mignolet[/TD]
[TD]600[/TD]
[TD]602.7[/TD]
[TD]-2.72[/TD]
[TD]0.292[/TD]
[TD]40%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mignolet (Sunderland)[/TD]
[TD]315[/TD]
[TD]313.6[/TD]
[TD]1.40[/TD]
[TD]0.275[/TD]
[TD]54%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mignolet (Liverpool)[/TD]
[TD]285[/TD]
[TD]289.1[/TD]
[TD]-4.12[/TD]
[TD]0.311[/TD]
[TD]31%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Tezzz]

[TABLE="width: 599"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 144"]Goalkeeper[/TD]
[TD="width: 77"]Saves[/TD]
[TD="width: 117"]Expected Saves[/TD]
[TD="width: 87"]Saves Above Expected[/TD]
[TD="width: 87"]Average Difficulty[/TD]
[TD="width: 87"]Prob avg. keeper < X[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Loris Karius[/TD]
[TD]327[/TD]
[TD]321.3[/TD]
[TD]5.66[/TD]
[TD]0.271[/TD]
[TD]71%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Simon Mignolet[/TD]
[TD]600[/TD]
[TD]602.7[/TD]
[TD]-2.72[/TD]
[TD]0.292[/TD]
[TD]40%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mignolet (Sunderland)[/TD]
[TD]315[/TD]
[TD]313.6[/TD]
[TD]1.40[/TD]
[TD]0.275[/TD]
[TD]54%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mignolet (Liverpool)[/TD]
[TD]285[/TD]
[TD]289.1[/TD]
[TD]-4.12[/TD]
[TD]0.311[/TD]
[TD]31%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

That's really interesting mate, well in for pulling that up.

With Karius back from injury are we expecting him to start a game in the next few weeks?

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

..... With Karius back from injury are we expecting him to start a game in the next few weeks?

I'd venture Derby next Tuesday and then, bar any catastrophe that game, he'll stay in the side.

I'd of had him back Sat'day like, let alone Friday. (Bar the good save from Vardy, who should of buried it, he was absolutely woeful again. His distribution was even worse than it normally is. The amount of times he gave it to a red shirt surrounded by three or four blue ones, which if he'd just turn his dopey head and see two or three red ones completely unmarked ..... Fella's a complete divvy.). But I doubt he makes the change for Chelsea.

Karius was brought in to be the #1. Not fight it out with a clown who's not even good enough to be a back-up as you can't frigging trust him when he is needed. Another clean sheet and excellent game by all accounts from Danny Ward Sat'day again too which is continually heartening for next season.

 

[dilakh2]

Hit the nail on the head there I think. Liverpool are at risk of becoming too attacking with all of these options, and against smaller sides that will sit back & absorb it, like Burnley did, they can be punished from it, especially if they're struggling to break the opposition down and constantly have too many committed forward. If I were picking the team, I'd like to have both Henderson & Can in the same 11, just to even it up a little bit. Or maybe Wijnaldum is as defensively capable & hard working as Henderson? I'm not overly sure, but what I've seen of him, he always wants to get involved at the main end.

I dont think Klopp will change it around that much. We have excellent midfield options imo, however I dont think Can will play as the deepest midfielder. He is too positionally ill disciplined and his main instincts is to run with the ball forward. It would be a waste of his talents to keep him shackled as the DM. I think the main midfield three when everyone is fit will be Hendo (deepest), Can and Wiji/Lallana/Grujic.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I dont think Klopp will change it around that much. We have excellent midfield options imo, however I dont think Can will play as the deepest midfielder. He is too positionally ill disciplined and his main instincts is to run with the ball forward. It would be a waste of his talents to keep him shackled as the DM. I think the main midfield three when everyone is fit will be Hendo (deepest), Can and Wiji/Lallana/Grujic.

Gonna' run with that for something ..... The highlighted one there, Marko Grujic, looks a frighteningly good prospect. Big, strong. Athletic. Solid defensively. Great pace to get forward. Goalscorer out of the Lampard mould who arrives late and always seems to be in space if the looks in pre-season are any indication. Already captained Red Star Belgrade to a league title at 19. He looks like the archetypical dominating central midfielder for the current period the game is in.

I could defo foresee a scenario where let's say, for the purpose of this, Henderson has his best ever season. Let's say he's double figures goals and assists and has just bossed the midfield. And let's say Tottenham came in next summer with a £50 million pound plus bid ..... Klopp would sell in a heartbeat knowing he had Grujic a year in ready to step straight in to replace a 27 year old we've just been offered silly money for. And they'll be an Ovie Ejaria or whomever the next age bracket under Grujic following through.

I love the idea the way the manager works of a consistent conveyer belt. Let other clubs spend the crazy money. We'll develop the crazy money talent whilst losing nottin' at the first team level.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Stood/ sat through 90 minutes and more yesterday, and 5 goals, and only just realised watching the highlights the white nets are back! WTF! Where'd the red ones go again? That's tradition!

This **** needs answering!

The last time we played in red nets we only scored one goal. We got four yesterday. Keep the white nets XD

Mystery solved: Revealed: Why the white nets are back at Anfield - Liverpool FC

Still much prefer the red ones that are uniquely us. As the blue nets Everton have had more often than not are them. But if the white helps the players better then so be it.

 

[Tezzz]

Mystery solved: Revealed: Why the white nets are back at Anfield - Liverpool FC Still much prefer the red ones that are uniquely us. As the blue nets Everton have had more often than not are them. But if the white helps the players better then so be it.

There's literally nothing Klopp won't ask to be changed if he feels about it. No more Jurgen Klopp La La La until after full-time as well.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Really hope Dahoud plays for Gladbach at Citeh tonight.

Good comparison to have a really good look at him.

 

[epic terrorist]

Gonna' run with that for something ..... The highlighted one there, Marko Grujic, looks a frighteningly good prospect. Big, strong. Athletic. Solid defensively. Great pace to get forward. Goalscorer out of the Lampard mould who arrives late and always seems to be in space if the looks in pre-season are any indication. Already captained Red Star Belgrade to a league title at 19. He looks like the archetypical dominating central midfielder for the current period the game is in.

I could defo foresee a scenario where let's say, for the purpose of this, Henderson has his best ever season. Let's say he's double figures goals and assists and has just bossed the midfield. And let's say Tottenham came in next summer with a £50 million pound plus bid ..... Klopp would sell in a heartbeat knowing he had Grujic a year in ready to step straight in to replace a 27 year old we've just been offered silly money for. And they'll be an Ovie Ejaria or whomever the next age bracket under Grujic following through.

I love the idea the way the manager works of a consistent conveyer belt. Let other clubs spend the crazy money. We'll develop the crazy money talent whilst losing nottin' at the first team level.

Levy wouldn't pay that for Messi never mind Henderson

 

[Mike.]

Gonna' run with that for something ..... The highlighted one there, Marko Grujic, looks a frighteningly good prospect. Big, strong. Athletic. Solid defensively. Great pace to get forward. Goalscorer out of the Lampard mould who arrives late and always seems to be in space if the looks in pre-season are any indication. Already captained Red Star Belgrade to a league title at 19. He looks like the archetypical dominating central midfielder for the current period the game is in.

I could defo foresee a scenario where let's say, for the purpose of this, Henderson has his best ever season. Let's say he's double figures goals and assists and has just bossed the midfield. And let's say Tottenham came in next summer with a £50 million pound plus bid ..... Klopp would sell in a heartbeat knowing he had Grujic a year in ready to step straight in to replace a 27 year old we've just been offered silly money for. And they'll be an Ovie Ejaria or whomever the next age bracket under Grujic following through.

I love the idea the way the manager works of a consistent conveyer belt. Let other clubs spend the crazy money. We'll develop the crazy money talent whilst losing nottin' at the first team level.

Agree with the sentiment but think he's got a long way to go before you can extrapolate that. And in fairness, those that are spending big have conveyor belts of their. Chelsea less so, mind.

For a start you need to have assets you can flog for that much. Your best sellable asset is probably Coutinho, and he needs to be more consistent.

You did spend healthy sums yourselves on Wiji and Mane

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Agree with the sentiment but think he's got a long way to go before you can extrapolate that. And in fairness, those that are spending big have conveyor belts of their. Chelsea less so, mind.

For a start you need to have assets you can flog for that much. Your best sellable asset is probably Coutinho, and he needs to be more consistent.

Naturally. We're only at the start of the cycle. And we haven't got all those players in yet. But with for arguments sake the likes of Dahoud and Pulisic I trust we will do.

I certainly don't think in a year or two's time we'll get caught scrambling around again a window for a replacement like when Suarez left. The next player will hopefully already be here with the investment in prospects.

As regards the likes of Mane and Wijnaldum, he didn't really have an option as the squad needed immediate attention to what he inherited. To marry up the future and winning now, he needed far better proven quality. But I don't foresee many major spending windows going forward when he get's the cycle going.

 

[Tyton]

Yeah, you have to respect Dortmund's ability to recover after losing their best players window after window after window. That's not luck, that's clever planning.

 

[Mike.]

Yeah, you have to respect Dortmund's ability to recover after losing their best players window after window after window. That's not luck, that's clever planning.

Indeed, and I have the highest respect for Watzke and Zorc.

 

[Average Joe]

Naturally. We're only at the start of the cycle. And we haven't got all those players in yet. But with for arguments sake the likes of Dahoud and Pulisic I trust we will do.

Seen you mention these a few times mate, they're not signed are they?

Just targets at the moment?

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Seen you mention these a few times mate, they're not signed are they?

Just targets at the moment?

Just targets. But very strong ones by all accounts.

I could certainly see a move made on Dahoud in January. He's out of contract the season after this so will be entering the last year of his deal the summer. Gladbach had zero interest in selling this past summer down to other key departures, so throwing £25/30 million or so at them would of been silly when you could quite possibly get him for half that in 6 months. It's worth the risk of another club with more money coming in if you wait. Interesting to read Barrett saying he has the same agent as Emre Can and that's already put L'pool a leg up with his new contract talks. Dahoud has turned down a new contract twice now I believe it is.

Pulisic has also turned down a new deal and that seems another similar scenario where we're prepared to wait and monitor the situation whilst he continues his development at Dortmund to get him a lot cheaper a year or two down the line. Maybe a City say at that point will gazump us with a big money bid we couldn't match. But hey, that's football and the risk you take in waiting. Fair play to them if they have that to spend. We'll just move onto the next prospect we rate as a potential future star.

It's a whole new way of L'pool doing business and it's certainly taking a lot of fans who naturally think L'pool should be spending major money on major names a lot of time to accept and get their heads round. We will still spend if the right players there like that fits everything we require. But it also has to be at our value. The lines been drawn and we won't be walked over the transfer market any more.

I like it. Very prudent way to run a football club and still compete with the likes of City and Utd without having the mega money City and Utd do.

 

[Mike.]

Just targets. But very strong ones by all accounts.

I could certainly see a move made on Dahoud in January. He's out of contract the season after this so will be entering the last year of his deal the summer. Gladbach had zero interest in selling this past summer down to other key departures, so throwing £25/30 million or so at them would of been silly when you could quite possibly get him for half that in 6 months. It's worth the risk of another club with more money coming in if you wait. Interesting to read Barrett saying he has the same agent as Emre Can and that's already put L'pool a leg up with his new contract talks. Dahoud has turned down a new contract twice now I believe it is.

Pulisic has also turned down a new deal and that seems another similar scenario where we're prepared to wait and monitor the situation whilst he continues his development at Dortmund to get him a lot cheaper a year or two down the line. Maybe a City say at that point will gazump us with a big money bid we couldn't match. But hey, that's football and the risk you take in waiting. Fair play to them if they have that to spend. We'll just move onto the next prospect we rate as a potential future star.

Pulisic's deal runs till 2018, and hasnt rejected a deal yet. Dahoud is a 50/50 one, because he may sit out all bids till the summer and move anywhere for a free. Guardiola is already a fan.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Pulisic's deal runs till 2018, and hasnt rejected a deal yet. Dahoud is a 50/50 one, because he may sit out all bids till the summer and move anywhere for a free. Guardiola is already a fan.

Pretty sure they offered him an extension this summer but I may be wrong. (Pulisic.).

But hey, that's the game and the risk you take. City can afford to drop £37 million on a Sane or £30 plus on a Gabriel Jesus who may only play 10-15 games this year. Fair play to them but we can't so we wait. If we get neither, they'll be others on his list nobody's ever heard of here like a Grujic.

It's hard to properly envisage for some as it's just the start of the cycle but I like the principle of it greatly.