The Liverpool Thread

Vanjagl said:
******* ****, that's terrible. Imagine hosting one of the biggest events in sport and failing to do the basics right. Like Scouse said, its freaking Paris, not some village in Cambodia. And those turtled security is more than encouraged to be trigger-happy than to try to help people who are struggling.

Hope you all get a good, deserved rest without thinking of football for a while.
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Thanks man. And everyone else's well wishes and concern. Greatly appreciated.

Home later on today. I’m just honestly thanking God that everyone is and we didn’t lose anyone. I really can’t convey how serious and dangerous that situation was Saturday night.

We barely spoke football yesterday. (Losing the match is a complete irrelevance. The football Saturday night I honestly couldn't care less for as I, like many others in our totally flat end, just watched it blankly whilst reassuring everyone back home texting that you were in and safe.). Save for everyones experiences which were all similarly horrific. And then yesterday evening, outside a really nice little restaurant/ bar up the top of Montmartre, a dad and his young kid set me off again. His son was 9. And he never wants to go to a football game again ….. A 9 year-old young lad who should be the envy of his mates watching his team at what should be the pinnacle of support, so traumatised by what he went through, not wanting to ever go to a game of football again.

I was 16 at Hillsborough and all the life changing horror that never leaves you and has been saw raw again this weekend. And 33-years later, in one if the Worlds best City's, outside one the World’s best and most modern stadiums, here we are again. When we NEVER should be again.

I won’t lie. Sacking off going the natch has been strongly playing around my mind since Saturday night like that poor kid last night. I mean I will be back next season but I’m a fool who knows no better. But there has to come a point where you go your own safety outweighs everything. If they can’t even consider peoples safety at arguably the biggest sporting occasion on the planet, whilst also treating you like you’re the low life problem and teargassing/ pepper spraying/ and in other accounts, indiscriminately battering people, all for doing nothing but trying to escape and save their lives to begin with, Paris 2022 might well be that tipping point for many in their football support.

And NO apology from UEFA, who I see are already backtracking and passing the buck over to the French Robo-Cops, will ever make up for that.
 
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Finally sat on a plane. Get me the **** out of this God forsaken Country I never want to come back to. If I even want to go back to a match ever again.
 
Just got back to the mail from the club wanting feedback on people's experiences to support the need for a formal and transparent investigation.

This won't be pretty on the French.

The good thing seemingly today, the absolutely scandalous lies the French are doubling down on aside, is more videos from the Madrid side starting to filter through about their similar treatment to add weight to dispelling the narrative the ***** have changed twice or is it three times now to cover their own serious failings toward public safety and complete ineptitude I never ever thought I'd see again. (Initially it was 'late arrivals, then 'ticketless fans', now fantasy numbers that don't add up in any way, shape or form on 'fake tickets.'). And the British media for once seeming to defend us from the absolutely horrific situation we had to endure Saturday night.

I've had some bad experiences over the years on foreign soil following this football club. Most every time you go to France, Spain or Italy you know the Police are going to be absolute shithouse's toward you. But never anything like Saturday. On the biggest stage of all.

This won't be pretty on the French. At all.
 
As upsetting and hard as it is, the more you read peoples accounts of Saturday, the more you're even more staggered there weren't fatalities. And as bad as your own personal experience was, you're left feeling lucky it wasn't half as bad as others. Particularly after the game with the level of violent assaults from the ferrel, criminal migrant gangs. With not one French RoboCop to be seen dealing with that away from the shadow of the stadium. Just one example-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531715552510631937

It's been absolutely brilliant, if totally heartbreaking, to read many first hand accounts from Madrid fans suffering similar terrifying assaults from the French RoboCops and ferrel ***** of Saint-Denis. Aside from the trauma of the complete lack of any organisation getting in. They've been left as traumatised, both mentally and physically, as ourselves. Again, just one of a multitude of examples in a thread of this Spanish family's experience-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531499392045400064

That all adds to dispelling the absolutely heinous lies that the French authorities are doubling down on to protect their own inadequacies for crowd safety. In 2022. In Paris. For one of, if not the, biggest event in any sport. The great thing is that the French people aren't buying the lies either and are speaking out vehemently in our defence. How high ranking Government ministers can STILL stand behind overt lies that can be so easily dispelled by simple maths is staggering

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531714591134257158

Talking of Daniel, he's been absolutely sensational in being on most every TV channel/ radio station,, here and in France, the past 3 or so days telling the truth of the absolute disgrace that was the 2022 CL Final. I can but applaud him, and every other reputable UK and foreign journalist, who have stood up from the off to knock down the despicable narrative that UEFA and the French are still trying to spin blaming innocent people who only wanted to see their team in a final. And who behaved impeccably in exceptionally trying circumstances. A whole time line of brilliance from him on his Twitter feed here-

 
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I also can't applaud the superb leadership from the top of Liverpool FC on down in standing up for our cause and not only demanding a transparent, independent enquiry to make sure this never happens again. (The fact it has 33 years after the worst day of my life that Saturday evening brought crashing back is to the despicable detriment of everyone concerned.). But in calling out the blatant lies and blame shifting:-

Tom Werners letter was brilliant yesterday-

Dear Minister,

I am writing to you today out of utter disbelief that a Minister of the French Government, a position of enormous responsibility and influence, could make a series of unproven pronouncements on a matter of such significance before a proper, formal, independent investigation process has even taken place.

The events that occurred in and around the Stade de France on Saturday night at the UEFA Champions League Final were not only incredibly dangerous for all who attended, but raised serious questions about the organization and operation of the event. This should be the focus of all interested parties today rather than pursuing a blame game strategy via press conference.

I have received countless emails from Liverpool supporters who were frightened to death, and subject to police harassment, pepper spray and tear gas. Moreover, the situation was no better at the end of the evening than at the beginning, with many fans robbed, and attacked by gangs.

It was clear that fans were forced to go through a gauntlet, spending more than 2 hours in queues. One person said they were “trapped against the gates, nobody was moving, and nobody on the other side of the gates was communicating at all.” These fans were treated like cattle.

How can loose data and unverified assertions presented this morning be anywhere near factual without a truly independent and transparent investigation with the right stakeholders including our supporters, our club and others taking place. Worse still, these assertions undermine the pursuit of truth and transparency which should underpin the motivations of any organization or individual with a desire to ensure such unacceptable scenes are never repeated.

The fact that your public position went against this objective is a concern in itself. That you did so without any recourse to ourselves or our supporters is an even greater one. All voices should count in this process, and they should count equally and fairly.

As a Club, it was already our strong feeling that any investigation should be impartial, independent, and transparent. This view has only intensified as a direct result of your public comments and the impact they have had on a narrative which runs contrary to the experiences of many. Your comments were irresponsible, unprofessional, and wholly disrespectful to the thousands of fans harmed physically and emotionally.

UEFA Champions League Final should be one of the finest spectacles in world sport, and instead it devolved into one of the worst security collapses in recent memory. On behalf of all the fans who experienced this nightmare I demand an apology from you, and assurance that the French Authorities and UEFA allow an independent and transparent investigation to proceed.

Regards,

Tom Werner

Chairman


CEO Billy Hogan has been on it and exceptional too with the clubs response. This was his latest update last night-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531704780258791424
 
Anfield last night-

1654068770523.png


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I know it hasn't happened on these here pages, friends, but it all makes the absolute low life *****, to be polite, all over SM, trying to point score with 'Them Scouse *****' again all the more disable. Despite realms of first hand accounts, from innocent Liverpool and Madrid fans, back up by testimony from reputable journalists, Mick in Manchester on his twitter feed knows exactly what happened and who was to blame. And the FA and PL have been VERY noticeable in their continued silence too.

Ala 1989, right from UEFA's first blatant lie as to why the KO was delayed, they were all over believing that and running with it to attack us.

And people wonder why we want F all to do with the rest of the Country and don't consider ourselves English .....

The French know-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531652229970677761
 
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I really don't know where I am on things right now TBH.

I've not felt this completely helpless, frustrated and despondent about the game since the aftermath of something I never thought anyone would ever have to experience again 33-years ago. The flashbacks on Saturday night brought that crashing back amid the absolute, exceedingly frightening chaos. And now the absolutely soul destroying, sickening lies of UEFA and the French trying to frame a narrative which points the finger squarely at us as supporters. Wrongly. Again. It's like history repeating. Without the obvious omission of loss of any life.Although mercifully, this time, the truth is being reported and the lies countered.

I've tried a few times to write an account for both the club feedback, and the timeline the outstanding Dr Phil Scratton is putting together, to properly convey and document everything I experienced on Saturday evening and I'm struggling badly to properly describe the complete lack of any organisation and chaos, both before the game in the crush, and vicious assaults from the French RoboCop's. And the same, licensed thugs, doing similar after along with the provocation and assaults from the migrant Parisian gangs that are among the worst anyone can ever remember.

I posted a few football related things on the Utd thread yesterday but I've honestly got absolutely no interest in pretty much anything football related right now. Without wishing to sound dramatic, to say it's left you in a pretty dark place is an understatement.
 
This HAS to become a major diplomatic issue between Britain and France.

The overt, outright lies are getting worse. The Presidents spokesperson has now claimed there were ‘no injuries’ and ‘no drama’ Saturday evening!

metro.co.uk

French government claims 'no drama, no injuries' done to Liverpool fans

The French government is refusing to accept its responsibility for serious danger at the UEFA Champions League final.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk
 
I naively thought he was going to be contrite. This is absolutely dispicable.

Lie after lie after lie. He lies as easy as he draws breath. Presumably this is akin to being all under oath too.
 
And she follows him with more lies.

I lost count of noting down the number through the translation there were so many. These ***** make SYP and Boris look honest!

I can categorically say for certain I won’t set foot into that Country again. And the way I'm currently feeling, that might well go for all football grounds everywhere too.

I can't go through all this again.

Despicable hearing.
 
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It's like Putins Russia. Absolutely NO evidence behind ANYTHING they say!

For anyone not following that, Dan Austin, who's been awesome both sides of the channel the past 4 days, has been vainly trying to keep up with the multitude of lies that make Boris and his gimps look honest!

 
Ian Byrnes on a debate on today's disgrace on France 24 now.


*Edit*

I believe that debate will rebroadcast at 11:10 PM BST tonight. Which was great as the French on their just ripped apart the lies from the despicable Ministers this avvy.
 
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Live TAW stream on today's Senate carnage. (Which will play from the start.).

 
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1532314349766844419

https://twitter.com/x/status/1532314498891231232

I'd give up a heck of a lot to replay last Saturday too mate and not have gone through the fear and trauma we did that made the actual game totally insignificant and a complete non-event.

So don't beat yourself up too badly Mo mate. You and your compadres did the very best you possibly could have in a very trying situation.

I've never known our end, not least for a European Cup Final, be as utterly flat and disinterested in a game of football as we were last Saturday evening. I honestly don't think I sung once all game. If I wasn't in bits myself trying to hold it together, or consoling others who were similar, you were answering messages from home reassuring people that you were safe and ok, in the ground, and, without wishing to put too finer, drmatic point on it, still alive. I've never experienced a more hostile, chaotic, disorganised and sickeningly frightening approach toward us, from all angles, at a game of football in over 3 decades. With absolutely zero concern for anyones safety. Heck, even when the board went up for injury time, you just wanted the game to end so you could get out safely and back into the centre in one piece. Knowing what was to come again outside. The want for an equaliser just wasn't there. In a European Cup Final. The biggest possible game of football there is. Tells it all.

So I can but imagine how that must have permeated onto the pitch when you're looking at our end, in a European Cup Final, with empty seats and a totally flat, apathetic atmosphere. For you all to play as superbly as you did, in such trying circumstances, we can but applaud you mate.

I know it hurts. But don't sweet it. The 2022 Champions League Final won't be remembered as any sort of game of football by the majority of us that were there mate through no fault of our or your own.

I can only speak personally but last Saturday night on the pitch in Paris didn't, and still doesn't, matter and is a complete irrelevance. Everything leading up to it is what we are so proud of you and your ridiculous teammates for.

You all left us with enough boss memories and enough immense pride through the magnificent season you gave us that ultimately garnished us with yet another double. This magnificent football club's EIGHTH!

Liverpool FC. 2022 Cup Double Winners, Not making it another treble doesn't diminish from that Mo mate.
 
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