The Liverpool Thread

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Doesn't matter though does it if you, I and everyone else came up with a list of 20 CH's we deemed an upgrade?

He doesn't and they only see one man as being that significant a top-level increase. That just is what it is and his view is all that matters there. You can knock him for it if you don't agree. But he's not looking elsewhere if you personally stated your case to him for A N Other player so that debate is fruitless.

It'd help matters if Clyne wasn't out and they weren't concerned with protecting/ rotating Trent and Gomez at RB given their age. Gomez at centre-half would quite possibly be an in-house solution.

But it's not just the CH's. There's mistakes happening in front of them leading to goals that far more than Matip, Lovren or whoever are culpable for.

Just when you get a frustrating week of poor results that should have been far better like this week, every man and his dog jump's all over them again. I think I'll swerve MOTD for one to spare me from that gobshite Shearer filling his boots on our defence later.
 
It does matter. He's not above criticism. Just because he doesn't see anyone else, doesn't mean he's right.
 
Apparently, Keita been sent off for a high foot to the face .....

Cue every Evertonian I know with the actual ability to press buttons texting me 'That be rite. The Redsh*te buying another thug after Mané. He deserves that club. They all want locking up them Redsh*te Norweigen gobsh*tes .....' or the like n 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 .....
 
Mike. said:
It does matter. He's not above criticism. Just because he doesn't see anyone else, doesn't mean he's right.
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You're telling me he's not above criticism? You want to read this thread. He get's a lot of it when warranted.

The point is it doesn't matter saying he should buy this or that (I personally only agree with one of your 4 still so I could equally say I don't think you're right. But that's neither here nor there) as it's a futile debate when there's only one man on the table in reality.
 
What's Utd's best centre-half partnership?

Pick 2. Any two. Bailly and Rojo?

Put them in the Liverpool team and you aren't improving our defence to any significant degree because we don't have a 'keeper behind them they can rely on if they F up like de Gea and we don't have anyone sitting protecting. That all makes a MASSIVE difference but we neither have that nor play that way to afford them guaranteed protection.

Just changing personnel at CH isn't fixing our defensive woes.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
What's Utd's best centre-half partnership?

Pick 2. Any two. Bailly and Rojo?

Put them in the Liverpool team and you aren't improving our defence to any significant degree because we don't have a 'keeper behind them they can rely on if they F up like de Gea and we don't have anyone sitting protecting. That all makes a MASSIVE difference but we neither have that nor play that way to afford them guaranteed protection.

Just changing personnel at CH isn't fixing our defensive woes.
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Not sure what your point is here. Rojo and Bailly didn't have a sitter last year, and they were still excellent. Unted still gave up less chances on goal last season(which means the comparison between keepers is irrelevant)
 
All of the players I mentioned can play without sitters, and function as first defenders: that is, they lead and control the defensive line of the side, its explicitly why i picked them out.
 
Put Bailly in the heart of that defence and you're significantly making your team a lot more counter-resistant, and much less error-prone. Lovren is bone-headed; always a bad action to follow a good one. Majority of our CB's walk into Liverpool's side and would improve it. There's at least one CB at each of the top 8-9 teams (if you're including Leicester (Maguire) & Southampton (Van Dijk), who I'd regard the best of the rest) that have a CB that would add more reliability to Liverpool's defence.
 
Mike. said:
Not sure what your point is here. Rojo and Bailly didn't have a sitter last year, and they were still excellent. Unted still gave up less chances on goal last season(which means the comparison between keepers is irrelevant)
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You still played VERY defensive as a team last year to protect them. We don't. We take risks all over. It's a major difference.

And you know full well the 'keeper behind them is massively relevant. You put Mignolet in your goal. Even the way Morinho traditionally sets up. And they'll be panic and more goals conceded.

It's all majorly relevant. I'd only take Bailly from Utd to upgrade our middle given his speed and ability one-on-one. Everything else would be no significant increase down to being a totally different environment to what they're used to doing.

Our defensive isn't great but it's not half as bad as it's often made out compared to the rest of the league.

Lovren looked F-ing WC at Southampton with Wanyama and Schneiderlin sat in front of him. Now he looks anything but out on an island on his own. All relative.
 
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Just seen on a tweet about the Burnley game: 'We drew. Move on. Have a bevvy!'

That should be a mantra for all life's disappointments!
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
You still played VERY defensive as a team last year to protect them. We don't. We take risks all over. It's a major difference.

And you know full well the 'keeper behind them is massively irrelevant. You put Mignolet in your goal. Even the way Morinho traditionally sets up. And they'll be panic and more goals conceded.

It's all majorly relevant. I'd only take Bailly from Utd to upgrade our middle given his speed and ability one-on-one. Everything else would be no significant increase down to being a totally different environment to what they're used to doing.

Our defensive isn't great but it's not half as bad as it's often made out compared to the rest of the league.

Lovren looked F-ing WC at Southampton with Wanyama and Schneiderlin sat in front of him. Now he looks anything but out on an island on his own. All relative.
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Actually, we didnt play all that defensive at all, still a 4-2-3-1 for the most part, relatively high line

The keeper is irrelevant when it comes to chances on goal.
 
Never realised in live action yesterday the Burnley lad Mee completely took out Salah for a stonewall penalty before Dom hits the bar late.

Couple that with Taylor allowing the clear Watford off-side equaliser and that's 4 points already through 5 games bad officiating has cost without even getting into Mané again. Being currently 5 points off City, these poor decisions are consistently costing teams millions in the final reckoning come May.

So much for 'professional' referees.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Never realised in live action yesterday the Burnley lad Mee completely took out Salah for a stonewall penalty before Dom hits the bar late.

Couple that with Taylor allowing the clear Watford off-side equaliser and that's 4 points already through 5 games bad officiating has cost without even getting into Mané again. Being currently 5 points off City, these poor decisions are consistently costing teams millions in the final reckoning come May.

So much for 'professional' referees.
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Said the same in the Prem thread.
 
Too much of that yesterday. Particularly late.

Aside from having 8 shots saved and a further 12 on goal blocked yielding just 1 goal, there was a lack of composure in and around the box far too often. L'pool we're in complete control for virtually the full 90 but didn't create enough clear-cut scoring chances. Instead, second half in particular, resorting to more hit and hopes from outside the box. And they were cutting through Burnley with ease most the game which it made it more frustrating.

The profligate attack let the team down as much as anything the defence did wrong. For the second time in 4 days.

But everyone all over is just pointing to the one piece of awful defending that resulted in Burnley's goal as it suits their rhetoric better on L'pool's defence.

*Edit* I only seen this as I was up early this AM but frigging Shearer MOTD slamming Klaven in particular. No problem their IF he'd also had a go at Can for switching off and not being arsed to stay with Arfields run from midfield to be in a position to score. His type of agenda driven, B/S analysis drives you mad,
 
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The very few attacks/half chances Burnley had/created, set pieces included, they looked like scoring from. It's not some crazy agenda against Liverpool's defence, it's reality. Taking risks up the pitch doesn't stop you from defending set pieces well, or being organised enough to deal with a long direct ball. These are the basics. It's not like your CB's were exposed in some break away 3v2/4v2 situation for these chances.

For the goal, MOTD says Robertson should've been more central, I'm not buying that tbh. 2 CB's go for the same ball (and got beat to it), in fairness to Matip, he's in a decent position, could've been more aggressive perhaps, but in the right sort of area. But what Klavan does here I'll never know?

klavan1.JPG


^ Clearly sees the situation, all he needs to is hold his position more or less and cover Matip, not 'charge' into his battle.

I use 'charge' very loosely, as look at his flimsy 'ah don't hurt me' body language when he eventually gets there:

klavan2.JPG



Completely vacates the space. Had he of been in this area, which he should've, there's a strong possibility he blocks the shot, or maybe even stop the ball getting to Arfield.

klavan3.JPG


Definitely communication/concentration issues, which again, tends to happen in these profile of games in which the opposition are there to absorb pressure, ride their luck, and try to completely sucker punch you in targeting identified weaknesses.

Should you have scored more than 1 goal? Absolutely. After last season, nobody knows this better than United fans. But should you be able to deal with the 2 or 3 threats posed from negative opposition? 100%. As much as you don't like people saying it, you struggle to do so. Attacks win games, defences win championships.

Maybe you do have systematic flaws defensively, but you can't deny a more competent CB deals with this situation better than Klavan.
 
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