The Liverpool Thread

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Bujakaa92 said:
Championship boss questions Liverpool over Solanke - Football365

I have thought about this, wonder if it was good move for him. I understand the majority opinion about Chelsea young players, but good comparison is right now Tammy, he is playing loads of games right now and getting very valuable experience that his age needs.
If they sell Stud in Jan, this could open up good spot for him, but if not it could be year wasted for very good young talent.
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Yeah, the views of as poor a coach as Bruce, who as per a good few players from his previous clubs is both rarely seen the training pitch and absolutely useless when he is, I wouldn't take any heed of.

Solanke's developing sound. For someone that's just turned 20 back in September, and who came as nottin' more than future potential, having had a mere 17 mins as a sub the CL his entire career at Chelsea, he's WELL ahead of schedule.

When he was picked up the summer, you thought he'd be a mainstay the 23's this year. But he's shown enough to the point he's not missed a match day squad this year. Just been looking at the individual games out of interest:

In the PL, he's been on the bench 12 out of the 13 games. Coming on 8 times for 97 minutes.

In the CL, he's been on the bench 5 times, coming on twice for 20 minutes.

And he played the full game down at Leicester the League Cup.

1 start, 10 substitute appearances, with a further 7 on the bench as an unused sub. Involved in 18 out of 21 possible games. And we're not even in December.

Bruce and his Mersonesq, archaic, Nationalistic bunkum can do one if he thinks turning out for League Two clubs would be a benefit.
 
If we should not pay attention to the words of a professional soccer manager in Steve Bruce who has both played and managed at the highest level, then why should we pay attention to the words of a forum poster who calls himself 'Scouseinthehouse'?
 
More to the actual point, Steve Bruce is absolutely right. Sitting on the bench, even at a top club, does Solanke no benefit at all. Its just an incremental improvement from Chelsea. He will benefit far more from actually getting on the pitch and playing games. Look at Lukaku. He developed rapidly once he managed to start playing games regularly at Everton.
 
Alc said:
If we should not pay attention to the words of a professional soccer manager in Steve Bruce who has both played and managed at the highest level, then why should we pay attention to the words of a forum poster who calls himself 'Scouseinthehouse'?
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That's a **** fine observation young man.
 
No need to go personally or fight here.

The point was that it was praised so much that u got him for that youngster eater Chelsea. Yeah, he might still develop into very good player and he is still young. But ultimately he needs game time, getting 10-15 mintues to play some odd games, maybe lucky to get some cup game under his belt should not be enough. Tammy has played already 900+ min in PL, thats huge for him, Solanke should also have the desire to go for loan move where he can play good minutes, not permanent move where he stays on the bench and maybe gets around 200-300 minutes from sub.

Season is long this conversation truly should be in the end of season and see how much he played. But on this pace if Stud is to stay and no injuries happens, he might lose one season of footy.
Also Woodburn is in the mix too.
 
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Bujakaa92 said:
No need to go personally or fight here.

The point was that it was praised so much that u got him for that youngster eater Chelsea. Yeah, he might still develop into very good player and he is still young. But ultimately he needs game time, getting 10-15 mintues to play some odd games, maybe lucky to get some cup game under his belt should not be enough. Tammy has played already 900+ min in PL, thats huge for him, Solanke should also have the desire to go for loan move where he can play good minutes, not permanent move where he stays on the bench and maybe gets around 200-300 minutes from sub.

Season is long this conversation truly should be in the end of season and see how much he played. But on this pace if Stud is to stay and no injuries happens, he might lose one season of footy.
Also Woodburn is in the mix too.
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The point being there is no point to Bruce's bunkum.

He's not 'losing' a season of anything. He's gaining experience day in, day out being a member of the first team already. Aside from what he's gaining game-by-game being a part of every matchday squad and involved in the 18 through 18 of the 21 games L'pool have played this year. He outfought Origi this past summer to the extent he jumped ahead of him and Divock was loaned out. Yeah, let's loan Dom as well and leave us with Firmino, Sturridge and the still returning to full strength and fitness Danny Ings as the only recognised CF's for the rest of the year to satisfy Bruce's wholly misguided view that any loan and full games is a better option.

He's both had far more first-team exposure and is developing far faster than what could of been realistically expected when he was picked up on the summer. He's fixing to be a big part of Liverpool's future and at just turned 20 is coming along just fine. As is Woodburn at just turned 18.

No need to rush any of them.
 
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PatrickLFC said:
What have you got against Australia? :P
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iu
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
The point being there is no point to Bruce's bunkum.

He's not 'losing' a season of anything. He's gaining experience day in, day out being a member of the first team already. Aside from what he's gaining game-by-game being a part of every matchday squad and involved in the 18 through 18 of the 21 games L'pool have played this year. He outfought Origi this past summer to the extent he jumped ahead of him and Divock was loaned out. Yeah, let's loan Dom as well and leave us with Firmino, Sturridge and the still returning to full strength and fitness Danny Ings as the only recognised CF's for the rest of the year to satisfy Bruce's wholly misguided view that any loan and full games is a better option.

He's both had far more first-team exposure and is developing far faster than what could of been realistically expected when he was picked up on the summer. He's fixing to be a big part of Liverpool's future and at just turned 20 is coming along just fine. As is Woodburn at just turned 18.

No need to rush any of them.
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Not saying you're wrong as I've not seen him for Liverpool (that I can remember) but how can you say / know how he's developed so fast with Liverpool?
 
How would you think Joe?

Given he's gone from nothing at Chelsea, to an ensconced member of the first team squad at Anfield and full England International in 5 short months?
 
Hope you dont see me too hostile :D not my intention, just interesting subject how big club should hold or loan out players.

What about you other youngster Marko Grujić?
He is 21, has not featured that much in first team, no loan moves, how all this affects his development?
He also came in with high hopes.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
How would you think Joe?

Given he's gone from nothing at Chelsea, to an ensconced member of the first team squad at Anfield and Full England International in 5 short months?
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Well I can't judge his development when I hadn't seen a great deal of him at Chelsea and he's getting 3 mins vs West Ham or 15 mins vs Maribor.

15 mins as a sub in a friendly for England doesn't say a lot to be honest, not as if England have an abundance of strikers. No harm giving him a go as he'd been in loads of youth teams for England so they had some idea of his ability
 
Bujakaa92 said:
Hope you dont see me too hostile :D not my intention, just interesting subject how big club should hold or loan out players.

What about you other youngster Marko Grujić?
He is 21, has not featured that much in first team, no loan moves, how all this affects his development?
He also came in with high hopes.
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Aside from who he's getting in ahead of, he spent the best part of his first year here injured and is now fully regaining that fitness. Again, no rush with him. He goes out in January for 5 months? Sound. He stays and continues getting experience here and there whilst re-finding his form and fitness the 23's? equally sound. He's highly regarded so has every chance of being a member of the first team squad going forward too.

You can't just loan players anywhere. It has to be the right loan, both in terms of league and club, to what you do and where they are at in their development. Often, it's as beneficial to keep those that you are really high on at your club, teaching them day in, day out the way you want them to play within your system and way of working. Particularly at young ages where you can mould them how you want. That's the way this manager would prefer it and it will only be enhanced when the development of the Academy to encompass the first team is complete and he get's to see not only all those kids now at Melwood on a full-time basis but those below on a daily basis.

The way modern-day fans want for the next shiny thing to be playing regularly is mad more often than not. Harry Wilson for example is tearing it up the 23's for the second straight season. By general consensus the best player in that league. Which leads to many all over social media calling for him to be in the side ahead of many regular first-team players. Without seeing him up close day in, day out to know just where he's actually at and how far off or not he actually is. Stevie Gerrard's had a blistering start to 18's management. They beat City tonight, they go joint top and remain unbeaten in all competitions outside of a Youth League loss in Moscow which they've now comfortably qualified top the group from. And now you're getting calls for many of that squad to be bumped to the frigging PL. Regardless of the fact most have barely turned 16. Utter madness.

Youth development takes time and L'pool are nicely sat all ways round in that regard going forward.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
The point being there is no point to Bruce's bunkum.

He's not 'losing' a season of anything. He's gaining experience day in, day out being a member of the first team already. Aside from what he's gaining game-by-game being a part of every matchday squad and involved in the 18 through 18 of the 21 games L'pool have played this year. He outfought Origi this past summer to the extent he jumped ahead of him and Divock was loaned out. Yeah, let's loan Dom as well and leave us with Firmino, Sturridge and the still returning to full strength and fitness Danny Ings as the only recognised CF's for the rest of the year to satisfy Bruce's wholly misguided view that any loan and full games is a better option.

He's both had far more first-team exposure and is developing far faster than what could of been realistically expected when he was picked up on the summer. He's fixing to be a big part of Liverpool's future and at just turned 20 is coming along just fine. As is Woodburn at just turned 18.

No need to rush any of them.
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I used to think the exact same thing about Lukaku. Why the **** does he want to move to Everton so badly. He can develop so much more by being part of the Chelsea squad and training with top players day in and day out. I even had a whole argument with Mike on here over it.

My views completely changed when I saw how rapidly he developed at Everton where he was playing regularly. Nothing more important than game time for a youngster. Look at how RLC has developed once he was sent out on loan and is playing at Palace regularly this season. 10-15 mins off the bench is not going to cut it at all.
 
Bujakaa92 said:
No need to go personally or fight here.
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Nothing personal. Just that if we are going to start dismissing Bruce's opinion over his poor credentials and pushing out our own opinion on optimal youth development then we better take a good look at our own credentials first.
 
Well, being as Chelsea showed Solanke absolutely zero pathway to the first team to have him follow the likes of Brewster to a club who do, you no longer have to worry about how his development is going or not.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Well, being as Chelsea showed Solanke absolutely zero pathway to the first team to have him follow the likes of Brewster to a club who do, you no longer have to worry about how his development is going or not.
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Some profound insight into youth development right here. Definitely changing my stance after this post.
 
He was in the squad at Chelsea last season, least now he getting minutes but hes not getting a Massive development boost just yet. From training with a first team with 0 minutes, to training with a first team and getting a handful.

An improvement yes, but not significant.
 
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