The Manchester United Thread

What a difference year makes.


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Think that Johnstone showed that the loan spell at PNE helping them get promoted last season really helped. Was really impressed with what he showed and could easily see him have a future at Utd imo at the very least 2nd choice. Would have him instead of Lindegaard any day.
 
sunilvk7 said:
What a difference year makes.


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Depressing really when you think about it. Cleverley,Anderson,Fletcher to some extent. An aging Giggs and Scholes and to top it off Fabio,Rafael and Park and Jones all playing in CM. Now we have Schweinstiger,Schneiderlin,Herrera,Fellaini,Carrick,Blind,Periera,Di Maria. LOL
 
zzeezzy said:
Welbeck's got a much better all round game with his movement and brings others into play much better. Ironically his only weak point is getting goals, Hernandez pretty good poacher but weak game other then that, doesn't offer anything movement wise like Welbeck.
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Welbeck is the poster boy for everything wrong with the english youth system/coaching. The production of athletes rather than a footballer.
 
sunilvk7 said:
Except Fergie stopped playing 4-4-2 many years back.....
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Still his favoured formation.

And to a wider point, I wish more of today's manager's would be brave enough to buck the trend of just following like sheep and go back to that perfect system for the English game. Too many of today's managers/ coaches get bogged down in tactics and thinking they're cleverly than they every where. Just over complicating a simple game. And the PL's a 'trend' league. If one bigger club went that way, more would follow.

Great believer in what Shankly always used to say. If fit, you get your best XI on the field EVERY game. And play your way and let the opposition worry about you Rather than the other way around. Ferguson, far from a great tactician, was another with the simplest of philosophies. You don't attack you don't score goals. You don't score goals, you don't win games. And as the defending's shocking here 4-4-2, getting it wide and constantly going at teams worked for him a treat. It's not rocket science. Just tweak that for continental competition where patience is the key.

Too many of today's managers/ coaches get bogged down in tactics and thinking they're cleverer than they every where. Just over complicating what is a real simple game.
 
dilakh2 said:
Welbeck is the poster boy for everything wrong with the english youth system/coaching. The production of athletes rather than a footballer.
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Never forget being with a friend watching his boy play a few years back, and what three scouts from Everton, L'pool and Utd vying for him had to say after the game. (He went to City. Now at Preston.). They were all real interested but because he wasn't super fast, they downgraded him. The rhetoric of all three clubs (he was 15 at the time) was they wanted athletes over technical players. They'd rather have the stronger, faster boy over the more gifted one as they figure they can coach them up on the technical side. Athleticism is the all important factor to them in the modern game and what they look for above all else in kids.

Hit home at just how far behind English football had fallen with that attitude from three major clubs.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Still his favoured formation.

And to a wider point, I wish more of today's manager's would be brave enough to buck the trend of just following like sheep and go back to that perfect system for the English game. Too many of today's managers/ coaches get bogged down in tactics and thinking they're cleverly than they every where. Just over complicating a simple game. And the PL's a 'trend' league. If one bigger club went that way, more would follow.

Great believer in what Shankly always used to say. If fit, you get your best XI on the field EVERY game. And play your way and let the opposition worry about you Rather than the other way around. Ferguson, far from a great tactician, was another with the simplest of philosophies. You don't attack you don't score goals. You don't score goals, you don't win games. And as the defending's shocking here 4-4-2, getting it wide and constantly going at teams worked for him a treat. It's not rocket science. Just tweak that for continental competition where patience is the key.

Too many of today's managers/ coaches get bogged down in tactics and thinking they're cleverer than they every where. Just over complicating what is a real simple game.
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You're right about one thing that football is simple, however I do not agree that managers should be going back to 4-4-2 and that they think they're cleverer than they are. Let's start with ferguson not one to be a sheep he was above all a winner I don't think he would have adopted a variation of 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-5-1 on a whim because he read it in a magazine whilst holidaying in catalunya. I would fathom that he adopted it because it gives you more flexibility than the more rigid atypical 4-4-2. You have superiority in the middle because 3 usually better than 2, it's also more solid down the middle because of the extra body and you still have numbers out wide that you would in a 4-4-2.

managers don't need to reinvent the wheel because these formations have all been around a long time, it is just that football evolves. And right now when fluidity, counter-counter and possession are all king I would surmise that most teams playing 4-4-2 these days would get rekt and rightly so. This of course is all my opinion, but why play 4-4-2 when you can play 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-5-1 and get all what 4-4-2 offers and more.
 
dilakh2 said:
Welbeck is the poster boy for everything wrong with the english youth system/coaching. The production of athletes rather than a footballer.
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Welbeck is footballer than Athlete. His dribbling, passing and understanding of the game is very good but his finishing for some reason never picked up.
 
sunilvk7 said:
Welbeck is footballer than Athlete. His dribbling, passing and understanding of the game is very good but his finishing for some reason never picked up.
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I agree, will never forget the Real Madrid game, I think that he maybe just isn't an out and out CF
 
Hernandez off ball movement is good sure, but Welbeck is better, he can do any job you ask of him effectively, work rate is as good as any and he offers more to a team than Hernandez. If I had a choice out of the two I'd still choose Welbeck, but that's my personal preference, he would link with our attacking players and bring them in much better.
 
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sunilvk7 said:
Welbeck is footballer than Athlete. His dribbling, passing and understanding of the game is very good but his finishing for some reason never picked up.
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In my opinion the problem with his finishing is he always wants to take that one touch too many. If he got his shots off just that one touch earlier I think he would score a lot more. Also he cant dribble with the ball while looking up. As soon as he raises his head, even for a split second, he runs over the ball or it gets caught up in his feet. If he sorts out those two issues he wouldnt be that bad. Unfortunately for him, he lacks the ability to know exactly when to shoot and then the ability to look up and pick his spot without tripping over the **** thing.
 
sunilvk7 said:
Welbeck is footballer than Athlete. His dribbling, passing and understanding of the game is very good but his finishing for some reason never picked up.
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Welbeck is nothing more than an athlete. The fact that you said welbeck can dribble have u seen the guy he is like bambi on ice, his first touch is a throw in. passing is a bit vague, anyone can make a simple short pass. Dont confuse understanding of the game with tactical instructions, theres a reason why fergie played him in big games but your not going to expect moments of brilliance from welbeck but you will expect him too run around ( athlete) and pressure the opponents. If anything Finishing should be good because that can be taught. 4 goals in the bpl, 45 in 200 plus games. If that isnt stealing i living a dont know what is.
 
steveorobbo said:
In my opinion the problem with his finishing is he always wants to take that one touch too many. If he got his shots off just that one touch earlier I think he would score a lot more. Also he cant dribble with the ball while looking up. As soon as he raises his head, even for a split second, he runs over the ball or it gets caught up in his feet. If he sorts out those two issues he wouldnt be that bad. Unfortunately for him, he lacks the ability to know exactly when to shoot and then the ability to look up and pick his spot without tripping over the **** thing.
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Dribbling is not just running with the ball like Messi. He is good in tight spaces and regains possession. His drawback is finishing which many expected to improve but whatever reason he did't.

dilakh2 said:
Welbeck is nothing more than an athlete. The fact that you said welbeck can dribble have u seen the guy he is like bambi on ice, his first touch is a throw in. passing is a bit vague, anyone can make a simple short pass. Dont confuse understanding of the game with tactical instructions, theres a reason why fergie played him in big games but your not going to expect moments of brilliance from welbeck but you will expect him too run around ( athlete) and pressure the opponents. If anything Finishing should be good because that can be taught. 4 goals in the bpl, 45 in 200 plus games. If that isnt stealing i living a dont know what is.
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No. I haven't seen him at all.

You can posts stats all you want, he was played as a defensive winger at United and that's one of the reason why he wanted out. When played as CF he scored 6 or 7 goals in as many games for Moyes.

Also his England scoring record proves he is a good player but lacks finishing.

Yeah can't dribble at all.

[video=youtube;uG68Q5UmaVw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG68Q5UmaVw[/video]

Don't give me reasons like youtube bla bla bla.. It's not photoshopped. It's what Welbeck did before Fergie retired.
 
Youtube lol. Is there a video of how many times he's tripped over a ball aswell with a bit of dub-step in the background?
 
zzeezzy said:
Hernandez off ball movement is good sure, but Welbeck is better, he can do any job you ask of him effectively, work rate is as good as any and he offers more to a team than Hernandez. If I had a choice out of the two I'd still choose Welbeck, but that's my personal preference, he would link with our attacking players and bring them in much better.
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I'm talking about off the ball movement only and Hernandez's is clearly superior. That's one of the reason why he ends up with so many chance. He knows when to make runs and when to attack near post.
 
steveorobbo said:
Youtube lol. Is there a video of how many times he's tripped over a ball aswell with a bit of dub-step in the background?
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Youtube shows his dribbling ability. You can get videos of all players falling over.

Not sure why "Youtube lol" defense is used. It looks so silly. It's not compilation of Messi with Welbeck face adjusted. It's what Welbeck did. It's his dribbling and close control.
 
sunilvk7 said:
Youtube shows his dribbling ability. You can get videos of all players falling over.

Not sure why "Youtube lol" defense is used. It looks so silly. It's not compilation of Messi with Welbeck face adjusted. It's what Welbeck did. It's his dribbling and close control.
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What I mean is its very easy for somebody to make a youtube video highlighting all the good stuff a player does. Its very rare videos are made showing the complete utter ***** they produce week after week in the other 90% of their game time. Anybody thats watched Welbeck on a consistent basis knows its 50/50 whether or not he'll actually beat the man and get a decent shot off, or either take too many touches and be tackled or try to dribble past the player and practically fall over the ball.
 
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