The Manchester United Thread

[zzeezzy]

Signing defenders won't solve the issue. Problem is not individuals, it's organisation. We don't defend as a team and defenders had absolutely no protection.

Simeone signed for Atletico Madrid and without signing any big name defender his team conceded 15 goals less in the next season. It's about getting basics right and having proper defensive set up.

Yes it is but you've still got to have the right players in order for it to work effectively, in LVG we have a coach who sets up and drills his team as good as any other manager there is. But last season our CB partnerships were inconsistent and constantly changing (yes I know you can't have one partnership in a whole season but you need some consistency with selection). This didn't help whatsoever. But you've really got to remember that the stats were misleading last season supposedly we were 4th best defence, we had superman in goal and even if we do maintain that level this season it isn't good enough to win the title.

Also I think you contradicted yourself a bit, in one sense you're saying signing defenders isn't the issue and the next saying organisation is. Well we had that last season anyway, especially as players got adapted to the system and we still looked very shaky at the back. Signing the right defender can make a big difference if they are experienced and know how to command/control that back line. Right now we don't have anyone who really takes the leadership mantle.

We can't rely on them players Sunlivk, are you really confident that we will win big things with those players in defence? When you consider every aspect of how inconsistent they are and if we pick up 1 or 2 injuries we are going to be relying on the likes of Evans and Blackett once again.

 

[sunilvk7]

For me Schneilderlin is going to help a **** of a lot with that before you even look at the defense. A player who cuts out this and gets tackles in early in invaluable in a top team. He fits there perfectly

This is what I'm saying. There will be lot of changes this season.

1. Defensive stability with players like Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger.
2. Proper RB who knows how to defend and cover gaps.
3. Proper LB with Shaw playing there.
4. Smalling's form.
5. No more 3 at the back experiments which was disaster.

 

[sunilvk7]

Yes it is but you've still got to have the right players in order for it to work effectively, in LVG we have a coach who sets up and drills his team as good as any other manager there is. But last season our CB partnerships were inconsistent and constantly changing (yes I know you can't have one partnership in a whole season but you need some consistency with selection). This didn't help whatsoever. But you've really got to remember that the stats were misleading last season supposedly we were 4th best defence, we had superman in goal and even if we do maintain that level this season it isn't good enough to win the title.

Also I think you contradicted yourself a bit, in one sense you're saying signing defenders isn't the issue and the next saying organisation is. Well we had that last season anyway, especially as players got adapted to the system and we still looked very shaky at the back. Signing the right defender can make a big difference if they are experienced and know how to command/control that back line. Right now we don't have anyone who really takes the leadership mantle.

We can't rely on them players Sunlivk, are you really confident that we will win big things with those players in defence? When you consider every aspect of how inconsistent they are and if we pick up 1 or 2 injuries we are going to be relying on the likes of Evans and Blackett once again.

No. I haven't contradicted myself. I said organization as in how coach set up his team not leading CB holding the line.

Only issue I have with our defense is injury issues. Otherwise they are good enough. Like I said with proper CM with good defensive ability we should be good enough. On top of that we have proper fullbacks now.

 

[zzeezzy]

To be fair how many more goals did you concede than Chelsea last year? Not very many. Now if youre keeping De Gea, have less injuries, Darmain steps up and you also have Schneiderlin (as my post above) I don't see you will be too bad off at all.

Obviously I'd like a top organizing CB who doesnt mess about, but barring injuries it's still a decent defense

I'd say the better question would be how many saves did De Gea the player of our season pull off to prevent it from being way more? He was like superman last season and you can't rely on him to constantly get you out of a mess.

I get what you're saying with regards to Darmian and Shaw as well should be better this season, but they are still young and relatively inexperienced players who need that real know how in the centre alongside them to get them through tough moments.

At the moment we're thinking maybe it will be ok if all them factors work well, the rewards far outweigh the risks of signing a CB right now, even if it isn't a big name but has that mentality.

 

[zzeezzy]

No. I haven't contradicted myself. I said organization as in how coach set up his team not leading CB holding the line.

Only issue I have with our defense is injury issues. Otherwise they are good enough. Like I said with proper CM with good defensive ability we should be good enough. On top of that we have proper fullbacks now.

Relying on not having injuries with the defensive options CB wise we have is a massive gamble and disaster waiting to happen. Really want to cut out the risks and gambles if you going to be successful, it's an Arsene Wenger strategy and we all know how that works.

 

[sunilvk7]

zz believe it or not, goal scoring is even bigger issue than defense and that's what Van Gaal said too. We lack creativity, again I blame Van Gaal for this. His system is way too rigid and expects players to play like robots.

I miss Fergie even more when you hear things like what RVP said. Always expected players to express themselves on the pitch even though our game was bit boring at times. But when we were behind the way we attacked was just brilliant.

 

[Puddz]

I wonder if zzeezzy can go a week without mentioning ADM or needing a CB...

 

[zzeezzy]

zz believe it or not, goal scoring is even bigger issue than defense and that's what Van Gaal said too. We lack creativity, again I blame Van Gaal for this. His system is way too rigid and expects players to play like robots.

I miss Fergie even more when you hear things like what RVP said. Always expected players to express themselves on the pitch even though our game was bit boring at times. But when we were behind the way we attacked was just brilliant.

I know that's an issue as well, that's why losing a player like Di Maria really hurts no matter which way you look at it. He was magical at start of season then wavered off as the season went on but still produced brilliant moments that our other plays can't do. Not that I want to get into this because if he really wants to leave and PSG pays the money he's worth he won't be here.

But I agree on the point, but think you're being a bit O.T.T blaming Van Gaal. In reality you can't have it both ways, good organisation comes from a rigid system and he does allow players to be creative/express themselves that's part of his philosophy. But they have to be sensible and smart on the pitch as well. Only have to look back at his days for Barcelona to see the football they played.

Tbf at the moment relying on Rooney to score so many goals is a gamble in itself, we could do with another striker but I doubt that's going to happen. Others will chip in of course but Idk if it's going to be enough to suit our ambitions this season.

 

[zzeezzy]

I wonder if zzeezzy can go a week without mentioning ADM or needing a CB...

I don't see why people moan when discussing something negative about United, just because I'm a fan doesn't make me have to dress everything up in a positive way and be deluded with confidence. At the end of the day it's a forum and we can share the views, we're in the transfer market period and pre-season so forgive me if there is not a lot to talk about apart from our off-field issue at the moment ahead of the competitive season.

Plus losing ADM our best player.... in terms of ability not form obviously.... is kind of a big deal so forgive me if I've been speaking about it.......

 

[Mike.]

ADM was never our best player, that's literal horseshit right there. Our best player was Carrick, followed by De Gea, Mata, Herrera and Rooney in that order. Ability is useless unless it is delivered. You might as well sign Quaresma zzezzy, because he has loads of ability, almost as much as di maria

zzeezzy, each and very time you fail to see the two big issues behind last year: injuries and structure. We most certainly have the structure now. That will cut out shots on goal anyway, which we gave far too many away of, and thats why De Gea was crucial. We don't know about injuries yet. But then a new CB wouldnt solve that anyway if there rest are getting injured because there is no stability anyway. Our midfield is stronger than it has been in the longest time, which gives us more control, and again cuts down on the chances given away. The more control, the less work for defenders.

Scoring goals was a far bigger issue, too many draws. Add Pedro and we on paper don't have that issue.

 

[Mike.]

I wonder if zzeezzy can go a week without mentioning ADM or needing a CB...

He can't go a day. Even though the window closes 31st august.

 

[zzeezzy]

ADM was never our best player, that's literal horseshit right there. Our best player was Carrick, followed by De Gea, Mata, Herrera and Rooney in that order. Ability is useless unless it is delivered. You might as well sign Quaresma zzezzy, because he has loads of ability, almost as much as di maria

zzeezzy, each and very time you fail to see the two big issues behind last year: injuries and structure. We most certainly have the structure now. That will cut out shots on goal anyway, which we gave far too many away of, and thats why De Gea was crucial. We don't know about injuries yet. But then a new CB wouldnt solve that anyway if there rest are getting injured because there is no stability anyway. Our midfield is stronger than it has been in the longest time, which gives us more control, and again cuts down on the chances given away. The more control, the less work for defenders.

Scoring goals was a far bigger issue, too many draws. Add Pedro and we on paper don't have that issue.

No one said Di Maria was our best player as in form, I mention he was our best player in terms of ability which he is..... that can't be disputed only one who comes close is probably Mata or Rooney but he's not even the player he was once at real prime. So don't start with that.......

I fail to see the issue? Injuries? No I don't at all, it's all the reason why we need one extra quality CB and at the end of the day one fixed CB is better than no fixed CB for a period of time. As Smalling shown last season when he actually picked up really good form during second half of season. One or two injuries and we're relying on players who aren't good enough.... that's just a fact.... Evans/Blackett shouldn't be here.

I've been through the whole structure/injuries thing but having a real quality CB addition will make all the difference to our consistency but most importantly, depth. At the moment it isn't good enough, we're relying on not getting injuries which is a losing strategy and Arsene-Wenger esque.

 

[Mike.]

No one said Di Maria was our best player as in form, I mention he was our best player in terms of ability which he is..... that can't be disputed only one who comes close is probably Mata or Rooney but he's not even the player he was once at real prime. So don't start with that.......

I fail to see the issue? Injuries? No I don't at all, it's all the reason why we need one extra quality CB and at the end of the day one fixed CB is better than no fixed CB for a period of time. As Smalling shown last season when he actually picked up really good form during second half of season. One or two injuries and we're relying on players who aren't good enough.... that's just a fact.... Evans/Blackett shouldn't be here.

I've been through the whole structure/injuries thing but having a real quality CB addition will make all the difference to our consistency but most importantly, depth.

again ability means nothing with delivery. as I said, might as well buy Quaresma on that basis.

 

[Puddz]

I don't see why people moan when discussing something negative about United, just because I'm a fan doesn't make me have to dress everything up in a positive way and be deluded with confidence. At the end of the day it's a forum and we can share the views, we're in the transfer market period and pre-season so forgive me if there is not a lot to talk about apart from our off-field issue at the moment ahead of the competitive season.

Plus losing ADM our best player.... in terms of ability not form obviously.... is kind of a big deal so forgive me if I've been speaking about it.......

You're the one that's been moaning about how we NEED to sign a CB or we aren't going to win the Premier league. You're the one that's moaning about how we should keep a player that's refusing to join up with the squad and trying to force his way out of the team. You're also the one moaning about us trying to sign Ramos, one of the best CB who has one everything, over Otamendi who had one good season...

 

[Mike.]

No one is deluded with confidence, we just don't spend the best part of 3 years being doomsayers... Even when a scenario isnt set in stone, you take the negative option, every. single. time.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Im not being red tinted or blinkered or anything like that, but as is I think we have more than enough to challenge for the title now even without anymore signings. The Summer so far has been very good nearly perfect bar a couple more editions. The players before would have had a full season and now totally comfatable with LVG philosophy. We now have a set system and way of playing with a minor tweak from last now having 2 holding CMs which will help us defensively and shield the CBs. We have addressed the RB and CM positions which we now have quality and depth and a good balance. It looks like we are going to be keeping DDG which is huge, plus Shaw is having a full pre season and looks fitter than ever. We have added one of if not the hottest attacking prospects out there. Plus the likes of Januzaj,Wilson,Periera,Lingard look like they are knocking on the door to be starters going off pre season performances and good international tournaments in the Summer. And lets not forget there is still just over 4 weeks left in the window and things could get even better.

 

[zzeezzy]

Mike you make it sound like he didn't ever show it and doesn't have it anymore, honestly you can say what you like but if his worst is 10 assists and 6 goals or whatever it exactly was, then what the **** is an average season from him?? Do you really expect a player like him to come in and deliver his absolute best first season... no signs that he's done it before so how was it going to happen now. He had way too many barriers to overcome first season. Anyway I only brought up Di Maria again to make a point about why we can't talk about something that has only developed over the last week losing a player we've only had for one season and spunked so much on?

I've been through the whole structure/injuries thing with Sunliv few posts back but having a real quality CB addition will make all the difference to our consistency but most importantly, depth. At the moment it isn't good enough, we're relying on not getting injuries which is a losing strategy and Arsene-Wenger esque.

 

[Mike.]

Mike you make it sound like he didn't ever show it and doesn't have it anymore, honestly you can say what you like but if his worst is 10 assists and 6 goals or whatever it exactly was, then what the **** is an average season from him?? Do you really expect a player like him to come in and deliver his absolute best first season... no signs that he's done it before so how was it going to happen now. He had way too many barriers to overcome first season. Anyway I only brought up Di Maria again to make a point about why we can't talk about something that has only developed over the last week losing a player we've only had for one season and spunked so much on.

I've been through the whole structure/injuries thing with Sunliv few posts back but having a real quality CB addition will make all the difference to our consistency but most importantly, depth. At the moment it isn't good enough, we're relying on not getting injuries which is a losing strategy and Arsene-Wenger esque.

he showed it for 11 games. Was anonymous for the rest. We've done this. And I don't care anymore.

 

[Mike.]

If we sign a CB, needs to be a cut above what we have. Short of a Madrid u-turn or Silva pitching up I dont see many options. Perhaps Jerome Boateng.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

12 goals against in the first 8 matches last season. In the next 26 games - it was 25 goals against. So basically - remove the Leicester-game where we fell apart our defensive record matched every other team in the League despite :

1) Luke Shaw played 16 matches
2) Chris Smalling played 25 matches
3) Phil Jones player 23 matches
4) We had no recognized right-back
5) Michael Carrick played 18 matches
6) In most matches we had a totally unbalanced midfield.

And yes - DDG saved us a lot during the autumn - but our defense was generally very good in every game apart from Everton away where Everything fell apart. So no - I am not concerned IF the guys stay fit.