The Manchester United Thread

[Anthony]

This a 1000 times. Less panic, and less shots on goal means less DDG heroics

Spot on.
I drilled it into the local kids team when I was helping with coaching.
If the ball is in your area it should not pass you!!! Win the ball... It's not somebody else's job.

 

[zzeezzy]

The structure clearly isn't the same. For once Carrick was the only holder and he missed half a our games, we won only one game he didnt play in. We've not added Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin, allowing us to play 2 of them at any one time, which is more cover than we have had since the days of Hargreaves. Not even close to being the same.

And using that logic about Schneiderlin, you might as well make that argument for anyone we sign, you can't have it both ways.

It's not patronising to point out the difference between half a Carrick in a 4-2-3-1 that was sometimes 3-5-2 and 2 of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Carrick in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. If one cannot see how we have far move defensive stability for the defenders, and I dont even count Darmian yet, then what's the point.

You keep speaking about what's in front of them I know that has improved and obviously that will help. But my point is on the basis that even with Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger would you be confident if Evans or Blackett was behind them? At the moment that's possible, only a few injuries away, that's why I think we need a better quality CB to replace those two and fight for a spot in our back line and be up to the job when called upon. Think you're missing my point.

 

[Mike.]

You keep speaking about what's in front of them I know that has improved and obviously that will help. But my point is on the basis that even with Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger would you be confident if Evans or Blackett was behind them? At the moment that's possible, only a few injuries away, that's why I think we need a better quality CB to replace those two and fight for a spot in our back line and be up to the job when called upon.

Why do you keep going to our 6th and 7th defenders? Most teams are a few CB injuries away from reserves. If Chelsea lost Terry Cahill and Ivanovic, they are down to Zouma and RLC..., and that's a side with some CB depth.

In order:
Rojo
Smalling
Jones
Blind
McNair
Evans
Blackett

****, he'd probably play Carrick before the last two

 

[Puddz]

All this talk about our defence is getting boring and stale.

Our strikers didn't score many goals last season, and we just let RVP go, clearly we need to go out a buy a striker that was good last year, like Harry Kane maybe, right zzeezzy?

Why arent you saying that zzeezzy? It's basically the same logic. Our defence was bad last season, our attack was bad last season. we only added Darmian to defence, while we let go RVP and got Hernandez back for attack. With your logic, we need to buy a striker or we aren't going to score goals.

 

[Mike.]

All this talk about our defence is getting boring and stale.

Our strikers didn't score many goals last season, and we just let RVP go, clearly we need to go out a buy a striker that was good last year, like Harry Kane maybe, right zzeezzy?

Why arent you saying that zzeezzy? It's basically the same logic. Our defence was bad last season, our attack was bad last season. we only added Darmian to defence, while we let go RVP and got Hernandez back for attack. With your logic, we need to buy a striker or we aren't going to score goals.

To be fair, we do need to add at least 15 more goals to our tally from last season. Rooney needs to hit 25 this season, and 10 from each win at least, with the rest coming from the rest of the side. We need to add at least Pedro

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

All this talk about our defence is getting boring and stale.

Our strikers didn't score many goals last season, and we just let RVP go, clearly we need to go out a buy a striker that was good last year, like Harry Kane maybe, right zzeezzy?

Why arent you saying that zzeezzy? It's basically the same logic. Our defence was bad last season, our attack was bad last season. we only added Darmian to defence, while we let go RVP and got Hernandez back for attack. With your logic, we need to buy a striker or we aren't going to score goals.

From everything LVG has said this is the area we are looking at in the market. By sounds of things Pedro is all but done and will help massively. And im sure there will be a big splurge on a player before the window closes which attacker that will be im not sure.

 

[Average Joe]

You keep speaking about what's in front of them I know that has improved and obviously that will help. But my point is on the basis that even with Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger would you be confident if Evans or Blackett was behind them? At the moment that's possible, only a few injuries away, that's why I think we need a better quality CB to replace those two and fight for a spot in our back line and be up to the job when called upon. Think you're missing my point.

I'd be more comfortable with Evans or Blackett playing behind Schneiderlin than either of them playing last season without him.

With a proper right back, a fit left back to play majority of the games and it's already a stronger defense, without a new CB. Put in the fact that Schneiderlin is **** hard to beat at mopping up opposition passes and getting his foot in for a tackle and it's already much better than last year (on paper).

(and yes, I would be trying to get ina CB regardless of what I just said )

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Spot on.
I drilled it into the local kids team when I was helping with coaching.
If the ball is in your area it should not pass you!!! Win the ball... It's not somebody else's job.

Zonal marking is one of my big bugbears in todays game allied to the above.

It's a cop-out for defenders and a complete abdication of responsibility's. 'But he wasn't in my zone boss ..... '

The amount of goals scored from set pieces with zonal marking teams defending them is ridiculous. It's not hard. You put a man on either post and pick up the shirts. With at least one or two men up for both the breakaway, and to force the opposition to keep men back. Football 1-0-1.

Another example of the simplest of games overcomplicated by coaches who were never as smart as they think they are.

 

[Average Joe]

Did Rooney look quite....err..... heavy to anyone else when he wore the Everton top the other day?

May just be the top but he looked weighty to me haha

 

[Average Joe]

Zonal marking is one of my big bugbears in todays game allied to the above.

It's a cop-out for defenders and a complete abdication of responsibility's. 'But he wasn't in my zone boss ..... '

The amount of goals scored from set pieces with zonal marking teams defending them is ridiculous. It's not hard. You put a man on either post and pick up the shirts. With at least one or two men up for both the breakaway, and to force the opposition to keep men back. Football 1-0-1.

Another example of the simplest of games overcomplicated by coaches who were never as smart as they think they are.

Give Milan a ring mate, we're TERRIBLE at defending set pieces last few years haha

 

[Mike.]

Zonal marking is one of my big bugbears in todays game allied to the above.

It's a cop-out for defenders and a complete abdication of responsibility's. 'But he wasn't in my zone boss ..... '

The amount of goals scored from set pieces with zonal marking teams defending them is ridiculous. It's not hard. You put a man on either post and pick up the shirts. With at least one or two men up for both the breakaway, and to force the opposition to keep men back. Football 1-0-1.

Another example of the simplest of games overcomplicated by coaches who were never as smart as they think they are.

It's a myth that zonal marking is weaker and a cop out. I've been lucky enough to speak to owen hargreaves on this. Trust me, the manager knows whose zone that player was in.

Chelsea use a mixture of both. United were zonal when they went 13 games without conceding a goal. It's not about the system, but how you execute it

Too many Commentators have this **** thing where they only talk about zonal marking when a goal is conceded and go silent when the same happens in man marking, it's amateurish.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

All this talk about our defence is getting boring and stale.

Our strikers didn't score many goals last season, and we just let RVP go, clearly we need to go out a buy a striker that was good last year, like Harry Kane maybe, right zzeezzy?

Why arent you saying that zzeezzy? It's basically the same logic. Our defence was bad last season, our attack was bad last season. we only added Darmian to defence, while we let go RVP and got Hernandez back for attack. With your logic, we need to buy a striker or we aren't going to score goals.

I thought it was a given you need to add a striker being as there's next to no out-right cover for Rooney?

 

[Tyton]

Zonal marking is one of my big bugbears in todays game allied to the above.

It's a cop-out for defenders and a complete abdication of responsibility's. 'But he wasn't in my zone boss ..... '

The amount of goals scored from set pieces with zonal marking teams defending them is ridiculous. It's not hard. You put a man on either post and pick up the shirts. With at least one or two men up for both the breakaway, and to force the opposition to keep men back. Football 1-0-1.

Another example of the simplest of games overcomplicated by coaches who were never as smart as they think they are.

Doesn't really work like that at all. Its always someone's responsibility and someone's fault, zonal marking or man marking. Its just that man marking can be comprehended by mainstream press so they can pinpoint the scapegoat, while zonal marking takes some knowledge. I guarantee you that whenever you were scored from a corner, Benitez knew who to give the hairdryer after the game.

Besides, as far as I understand, barely anyone uses pure zonal system. Its usually man mark the biggest threat and zonal mark the rest.

 

[Mike.]

Doesn't really work like that at all. Its always someone's responsibility and someone's fault, zonal marking or man marking. Its just that man marking can be comprehended by mainstream press so they can pinpoint the scapegoat, while zonal marking takes some knowledge. I guarantee you that whenever you were scored from a corner, Benitez knew who to give the hairdryer after the game.

Besides, as far as I understand, barely anyone uses pure zonal system. Its usually man mark the biggest threat and zonal mark the rest.

So did Ferguson.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

It's a myth that zonal marking is weaker and a cop out. I've been lucky enough to speak to owen hargreaves on this. Trust me, the manager knows whose zone that player was in.

Chelsea use a mixture of both. United were zonal when they went 13 games without conceding a goal. It's not about the system, but how you execute it

Naturally everything comes down to execution but I'd disagree zonal marking from set plays is more effective than man-to-man.

In open play, naturally most teams have a hybrid mix of both.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Give Milan a ring mate, we're TERRIBLE at defending set pieces last few years haha

Come to Anfield my friend.

The panic surrounding Mingolet, Skrtel and Lovren makes your back line look like Rossi, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini are still playing!

 

[Tyton]

Most teams have hybrid for set pieces too. Its easy to pick out. If they all hug each other, pull shirts and so on, its pure man marking. If they all watch set piece taker, its pure zonal. If only couple of guys hug, with the rest watching the set piece, its hybrid.

You'll find that in top teams its rarely all of em hugging.

 

[MANUMAD]

4th best defence in league last season right? What makes me think that will be suddenly good enough this season to win a title? That flattered us anyway because when your goalkeeper is player of the season it tells the whole story of how he bailed us out on many occasion and saved many points.

Mate, you REALLY are not helping yourself with pronouncements such as the above. You do make a LOT of valid points usually with which I mostly agree but in your general and alarmingly permanent hysteria you only succeed in drowning them out which is a shame.

 

[Mike.]

Naturally everything comes down to execution but I'd disagree zonal marking from set plays is more effective than man-to-man.

In open play, naturally most teams have a hybrid mix of both.

I wasn't arguing it was better, I'm saying the idea that it is weaker and a cop out is completely wrong. It's about knowing which system suits the opposition you're up against more than anything else. Hence the hybrid you usually see.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Most teams have hybrid for set pieces too. Its easy to pick out. If they all hug each other, pull shirts and so on, its pure man marking. If they all watch set piece taker, its pure zonal. If only couple of guys hug, with the rest watching the set piece, its hybrid.

You'll find that in top teams its rarely all of em hugging.

'Hugging.'

AKA, in the case of M.Skrtel Esq, as the 'Hong Kong Phoey Chop.' How he continues to get away with his Bruce Lee impression most every corner is a continued mystery.