The Manchester United Thread

[wkdsoul]

Yeah, if you count pure academy players then at big club there are very few. Most big clubs sign players at 15 or 16 and develop them.

Pretty much, hence the we bring though our own lads aregument being a bit of a moot point. No you dont you poach you're own lads after 5 years development and then charge for or release them. Its all accross the board.

It was only to point out his vilification for Chelsea doing it, can be pointed at anyone. For every player that makes the first team debut, you can pull up 5-10 that were released at any club. No club has a steller record for youth development any more, theres too much money at stake to risk it, unless you get the preverbial wonderkid (Ronaldo/Rooney) etc.

but its all IMO anyway, back to your LVG arguement.. i'm off toget popcorn.

 

[loveunitedhatecity]

Pretty much, hence the we bring though our own lads aregument being a bit of a moot point. No you dont you poach you're own lads after 5 years development and then charge for or release them. Its all accross the board.

It was only to point out his vilification for Chelsea doing it, can be pointed at anyone. For every player that makes the first team debut, you can pull up 5-10 that were released at any club. No club has a steller record for youth development any more, theres too much money at stake to risk it, unless you get the preverbial wonderkid (Ronaldo/Rooney) etc.

but its all IMO anyway, back to your LVG arguement.. i'm off toget popcorn.

the point i was making is the fact chelsea just buy and loan constantly for profit purposes wrecking careeers in the process having no remorse for the players there comes a time when you need to look at the bigger picture even if you dont win a title that season because you gave 1-4 youth players a chance to gain vital experience i mean chelsea won the chamions league for youths but havent done anything of substance regardless of how promising youths they have on their ranks it doesnt matter if they are purchased from foreign countrys or born in england i have a huge disliking to clubs who dont have traditions of giving players a chance and i am 1 of those who actually gets excitment seing a youth player playing in the 1st team

 

[dasty]

You're taking a LOT of liberties there.

Hang fire.

Well, I'm not sure why you are saying that, but here's some actual quotes from the players mentioned.

Puyol

Puyol said: "There are many turning points in a football career.
"But if I have to choose one in particular, certainly was when I was about to leave Barcelona B and decided to stay instead.
"That season Van Gaal put me up into the first team and I eventually played more than 30 games for the club."

Valdes

"Thank you to Louis van Gaal, for showing the courage necessary to gamble on a talent that only he could see. He began building this historic Barça side, which I have been privileged to be part of. My heartfelt thanks," Valdes said.

Xavi

'Well my personal experience with him was great,' said Xavi. 'He gave me the opportunity to join the first team and he gave me a lot of confidence the whole time.
'I worked with him and he really put his faith in me. He pushed me into the first team at 17 and helped me so much through that difficult journey.
'In my opinion he didn't get the credit he deserved at Barcelona. He had very clear ideas and was very methodical. He was a coach who was ahead of his time.'

Iniesta

Iniesta added: 'I was 17 years of age and delighted to be in the first team, and he gave me that opportunity. I knew that he had always done tremendous work with the young players.
'I was excited to work with him and take such an important step in my career. He's hard working, honest, sincere. Above all, he's a hugely successful manager who's done great things in the game.'

Muller

"Van Gaal also had a huge effect on my development,"
"I am very grateful to him -- he gave me great help and leadership, and he saw something in me as a forward where some others didn't."

Badstuber

"I owe a lot to van Gaal. Without him I would not now be with the national team," the powerful defender said alluding to Van Gaal's decision to promote the youngster from Bayern's second team to the first XI.

 

[wkdsoul]

the point i was making is the fact chelsea just buy and loan constantly for profit purposes wrecking careeers in the process having no remorse for the players there comes a time when you need to look at the bigger picture even if you dont win a title that season because you gave 1-4 youth players a chance to gain vital experience i mean chelsea won the chamions league for youths but havent done anything of substance regardless of how promising youths they have on their ranks it doesnt matter if they are purchased from foreign countrys or born in england i have a huge disliking to clubs who dont have traditions of giving players a chance and i am 1 of those who actually gets excitment seing a youth player playing in the 1st team

Dude, they won it in April. lol.

but yeah most of Chelsea setup is to loan them out get a fee and make more FFP money, which is a smart move in this day and age. Business>Football for them.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

What liberties? Next you want me to post the quotes of the above mentioned players? When you don't have points to make it's better to shut up than giving smart **** answers without actually responding to the point made.

Such unnecessary and ill advised aggressiveness. You're a very angry poster.

Asking you to 'hang fire' is asking you to wait for a response in that context. Nothing 'smart arsed' about it. I just wanted to check up before I responded.

The 'liberties' I was referring to from your post was Inesta and Alaba in the main who really came through under Rijkaard and Heynckes respectively. (6 games for each under Van Gaal I don't class as 'giving youth a chance.').

Badstubber, Muller and Xavi were no brainers as they were really shining for the lower league reserve sides as the German and Spanish system is, but he did strictly promote them so no issue there or with Puyol. (And Valdes to a lesser extent.).

But the point being outside of those top quality three or four, who would of been promoted regardless under whomever; it's minimal games here and there for others. Not knocking him as he has a very good managerial record. But it's very misleading to suggest he's youth orientated as many do.

 

[loveunitedhatecity]

Dude, they won it in April. lol.

but yeah most of Chelsea setup is to loan them out get a fee and make more FFP money, which is a smart move in this day and age. Business>Football for them.

imo i dont agree with that philosphy im gonna stop here cos i can go on forever maybe its just the generation i was brought up in and certain beliefs i have in football it was the reason i fell in love with man utd from a young age and it has been brilliant seing van gaal put faith in players like mcnair wilson blackett (januzaj less) but januzajs demotement was more of a challenge prove your good enough

 

[wkdsoul]

imo i dont agree with that philosphy im gonna stop here cos i can go on forever maybe its just the generation i was brought up in and certain beliefs i have in football it was the reason i fell in love with man utd from a young age and it has been brilliant seing van gaal put faith in players like mcnair wilson blackett (januzaj less) but januzajs demotement was more of a challenge prove your good enough

Yeah no worries. I can see both, if they can get a fee for them while they develop at Vitesse over our poor youth league quaility, why not? Just have wait and see if anything comes of that team or if they will be a pub quiz question for years to come...

Happy Otamenday

 

[loveunitedhatecity]

Yeah no worries. I can see both, if they can get a fee for them while they develop at Vitesse over our poor youth league quaility, why not? Just have wait and see if anything comes of that team or if they will be a pub quiz question for years to come...

Happy Otamenday

as with pedro im delighted we aint signed him im hoping mcnair plays a big part this season as a rotational player

 

[sunilvk7]

Such unnecessary and ill advised aggressiveness. You're a very angry poster.

Asking you to 'hang fire' is asking you to wait for a response in that context. Nothing 'smart arsed' about it. I just wanted to check up before I responded.

The 'liberties' I was referring to from your post was Inesta and Alaba in the main who really came through under Rijkaard and Heynckes respectively. (6 games for each under Van Gaal I don't class as 'giving youth a chance.').

Badstubber, Muller and Xavi were no brainers as they were really shining for the lower league reserve sides as the German and Spanish system is, but he did strictly promote them so no issue there or with Puyol. (And Valdes to a lesser extent.).

But the point being outside of those top quality three or four, who would of been promoted regardless under whomever; it's minimal games here and there for others. Not knocking him as he has a very good managerial record. But it's very misleading to suggest he's youth orientated as many do.

Giving chance doesn't just mean giving debuts. Also good luck with your logics. For all the players who got chances under Van Gaal would have anyways got it. lol. It was written in starts isn't it that Muller would be destined for big things so was Xavi when Xavi was linked with other clubs before Pep took over.

Like I said, giving chances means not just playing here and there. Integrating them to the first team and playing them. Iniesta played 6 games as a 18 year old in half a season and Van Gaal was sacked.

Coming to United, young players played even when senior players were on bench. There is always an option of playing senior players out of position but it takes balls to play youngsters even when they are not tested at any top level.

 

[sunilvk7]

Well, I'm not sure why you are saying that, but here's some actual quotes from the players mentioned.

Puyol

Valdes

Xavi

Iniesta

Muller

Badstuber

Fantastic. I didn't want to spoon feed him and do all the searching for him. Anyways thanks man and should shut them once for all.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Fantastic. I didn't want to spoon feed him and do all the searching for him. Anyways thanks man and should shut them once for all.

And I was just typing I'd nothing else to add and we'll agree to disagree. I think it's a misleading claim. You don't.

Then you go add another snarky and uncalled for comment. You really are a very angry man.

 

[Alcaraz]

the point i was making is the fact chelsea just buy and loan constantly for profit purposes wrecking careeers in the process having no remorse for the players there comes a time when you need to look at the bigger picture even if you dont win a title that season because you gave 1-4 youth players a chance to gain vital experience i mean chelsea won the chamions league for youths but havent done anything of substance regardless of how promising youths they have on their ranks it doesnt matter if they are purchased from foreign countrys or born in england i have a huge disliking to clubs who dont have traditions of giving players a chance and i am 1 of those who actually gets excitment seing a youth player playing in the 1st team

In the last 3 years, who are the youth players whose career has been wrecked by staying at Chelsea? I say 3 because that's the beginning of the Emeleano era

 

[sunilvk7]

And I was just typing I'd nothing else to add and we'll agree to disagree. I think it's a misleading claim. You don't.

Then you go add another snarky and uncalled for comment. You really are a very angry man.

You deserve what you get/you get what you deserve.

 

[wkdsoul]

To be fair you can't really judge LVG on his youth record, he's only been in a job longer than 3 years twice. (AZ/Ajax). Ajax is a proven youth product generator and this ended in '97.

Can't say i'm much familiar with his AZ work to be fair (someone who follows dutch football closely fill me in here), he was here 4 years (not barring the hiccup) did he promote/improve youth team players then?

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

You deserve what you get/you get what you deserve.

Stay classy.

.....
Can't say i'm much familiar with his AZ work to be fair (someone who follows dutch football closely fill me in here), he was here 4 years (not barring the hiccup) did he promote/improve youth team players then?

Does any coach not in Holland?

When a large portion of your squad gets gutted every year, it's the nature of the beast. Lot of respect for coaches/ managers in those leagues. It's like starting over most every year.

 

[sunilvk7]

To be fair you can't really judge LVG on his youth record, he's only been in a job longer than 3 years twice. (AZ/Ajax). Ajax is a proven youth product generator and this ended in '97.

Can't say i'm much familiar with his AZ work to be fair (someone who follows dutch football closely fill me in here), he was here 4 years (not barring the hiccup) did he promote/improve youth team players then?

He did it twice at Barca and Bayern. And that covers all his jobs except AZ.

Searched about AZ. Following players were given chances.
Vormer, 20 year old Romero, 20 year old Moreno, Luyckx, Lens, 19 year old Dembele.

These are just from quick search in their squads.

 

[sunilvk7]

Stay classy.
.

And?

 

[wkdsoul]

He did it twice at Barca and Bayern. And that covers all his jobs except AZ.

Searched about AZ. Following players were given chances.
Vormer, 20 year old Romero, 20 year old Moreno, Luyckx, Lens, 19 year old Dembele.

These are just from quick search in their squads.

All 3 jobs lasted under 3 years.
Only the first Barcelona job, came just shy of 3 years. (by a month) He wasnt even there a year the 2nd time.
He was sacked at Bayern in under 2.

So i wouldnt even consider that enough time to implement a youth policy to be judged upon. I wouldnt say he's well known for it, but he's not really known for stifliing it either.

 

[Puddz]

All 3 jobs lasted under 3 years.
Only the first Barcelona job, came just shy of 3 years. (by a month) He wasnt even there a year the 2nd time.
He was sacked at Bayern in under 2.

So i wouldnt even consider that enough time to implement a youth policy to be judged upon. I wouldnt say he's well known for it, but he's not really known for stifliing it either.

Don't believe he ever said anything of a youth policy, just giving youth players already at the club/brought in a chance in the first team, which you can't dispute.

 

[sunilvk7]

All 3 jobs lasted under 3 years.
Only the first Barcelona job, came just shy of 3 years. (by a month) He wasnt even there a year the 2nd time.
He was sacked at Bayern in under 2.

So i wouldnt even consider that enough time to implement a youth policy to be judged upon. I wouldnt say he's well known for it, but he's not really known for stifliing it either.

It's not about changing the youth academy. It's about giving young players chances and not afraid to throw them to the first team.