The Manchester United Thread

Ok, can't be bothered to go back and review a billion pages, so, Mike and Joel, I wanna hear your opinion please. Positives, negatives, etc.
 
Nick Chelsea said:
Ok, can't be bothered to go back and review a billion pages, so, Mike and Joel, I wanna hear your opinion please. Positives, negatives, etc.
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Mike finally went on the rant that's been building for about two months now:

Mike. said:
Most of you know I'm an advocate for time ( as Godcubed would say, perhaps guilty of too much time) when many were calling for him to go December, I was arguably one of his fiercest proponents, because I believe in seeing the full picture, and that the picture would decide itself. I'm going to put aside all the tactical stuff, because Moyes infinitely better than what he has shown, we've seen the evidence for 11 years. I'm going to focus two things: the player's belief in him, and more importantly his belief in himself. The most important thing he had to do was believe in himself, that he was good enough to take the chair, that he DESERVED to be in the chair. Forget the fans, forget the media and what they say about him. He needs/needed to wake up every day KNOWING he was the Manchester United manager.

From day one I don't believe he has felt that way, that he has had that self belief. Most of all, he has not picked it up. When you dont have it, the senior players will be wary, rightly or wrongly. It happens. And its acceptable at the start. But when you don't grasp it, you start to drown. And once you get to that stage you have to learn to sink or swim. The reason I talk about it, is that above all else, self belief is at the core of everything Manchester United. We take backs losing games we shouldn't, we beat teams we shouldnt, we win Leagues and Cups we should, we set history when we shouldn't, because we believe we can, right until the whistle goes and the season ends.

Players can be fickle, spoilt and surly, and not believe in a manager and there is no doubt too many players have hidden, and that is unacceptable from them, and they are shipped out, they can have no complaints. But you CANNOT manager this club without believing in yourself, if you do not, it will crush you. Moyes has been hamstrung in many areas, and a lot of things have not been his fault, and he has been desperately unlucky with injuries. But too often it feels like games have passed him by, with him feeling unable to stem the tide, and when he has got it right, he hasn'y been unable to ride that, and maintain it. Too many one step forwards, and three steps back.

David Moyes is by all accounts a truly decent man, honest and full of integrity, the kind of manager I want nothing more than to succeed, in a world where managers like Mourinho are fawned over for character assassinating people left right and centre. But by every reasonable expectation, he has fallen short. Now that perhaps, is something than can be stomached, even with falling out with senior players. But whats more damning is that a season on, you wonder, can you see him learning from it for the next season? Make no mistake, there is no room for error next season, for whoever is in charge. I always like a manger to get two years, but I look at and I know the way things are, I must be reasonably sure that he can hit the necessary targets next year, and I'm not. I'm not even close to being sure.

What's hard for me to take is not that he hasn't risen to "United" standards, but rather he hasn't hit his own Everton standards. His every touch has deserted him on and off the pitch. His excellent reactive ability, has totally gone. His strong analysis and reading of the game, as gone. His ability to make a side hard to beat, and then press you out has gone. Everything he needed to steady the ship first season, in order to build on that, has fallen away from him.

And perhaps the final straw, is that he is losing the younger players. Danny Welbeck, as described by Joe Hart is "a United fan first, and United footballer second" that is how much the club means to him, when your relationship breaks down so far as to alienate him into wanting to leave, (and it goes beyond wanting more football), you're on the wrong course. Now you could survive one of these major failings, but all at once? It's too much. I long for the day when managers like Moyes are at the top again, straight talking and none of this crazy paranoia (and even that has slipped from him), but I cannot see it being this day, at this club. And it saddens me. Even now, I don't actually want him to go, but the sad truth his, I feel he has to. David Moyes has given it his best, and its just not been good enough.
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Suffice to say, I think most people agree. Earlier there was a bit of reflection about how Moyes' sacking was handled so badly, which it was.
 
Mike. said:
That doesn't factor in the large sponsor ship increases. The biggest of which is yet to be done. 4.5 is nothing to be honest. There was no excuse for handling it the way they did.
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Well, they also tapped up Moyes and made him run down his contract at Everton so they didn't have to pay Everton a year of his contract either (?3m?). So it seems even for much smaller figures, the Glazers arn't against this sort of vaguely distateful underhand sort of business.

Hiring him for 10 months then trying to increase the already immense pressure on him so he just quits his job is pretty horrible mind you, Moyes seems like a nice guy with integrity, and I can't imagine that dilemma of constant pressure yesterday on top of a horrible season would have been easy.
 
today's the day we won the league last year....

on top of that, moyes being sacked 3 days before his birthday.....I'd go on a killing spree just for that.

Anyone taking bets on Moyes' first victim?
 
[video=youtube;BfuWXRZe9yA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfuWXRZe9yA[/video]

David-Moyes-008.jpg


david-moyes_2783026k.jpg
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RIP in peace Davy Moyes 2013/14-2013/14 ;_;

Never forget his greatest moments:
Overpaying for Fellaini
Herreragate
Losing to Stoke
Losing to West Brom
Smashing records
Losing to Olympiakos
Losing both games to City
Embarassed by Chelsea
Losing 2-0 to the man who replaced you at the 'lesser' club
Losing to Sunderland in the cup
Losing both games to Liverpool
Replacing some of the country's most respected coaches with your own
Starting your first press conference with a fixtures whine
Making RVP a bit **** again
Buying Mata then making him somehow a bit **** too
Resigning Rooney for silly money
Never playing Kagawa
Shafting Zaha so hard that people think he shagged your daughter
Losing all the senior players
The general decline
Bringing forth the tears of millions of United fans worldwide

On behalf of the supporters of clubs everywhere, I thank you. You will be missed.
 
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When you contract LVG you just have to consider his cons. He can't handle the press.

Further he's a great coach, gives the youth a chance, makes people feel important in a team and he might just reform your youth system to the better. It'll probably be about if the supporters can handle LVG's media management when he has a bad run. Not sure how much patience you guys have left, but I'm sure if you give the guy 2 years United will be back where it was.
 
lxl Ra lxl said:
When you contract LVG you just have to consider his cons. He can't handle the press.

Further he's a great coach, gives the youth a chance, makes people feel important in a team and he might just reform your youth system to the better. It'll probably be about if the supporters can handle LVG's media management when he has a bad run. Not sure how much patience you guys have left, but I'm sure if you give the guy 2 years United will be back where it was.
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I'll agree with this.

LVG is polarising for a reason. I do wonder how he would cope with the British media and their world-famous scrutiny.
 
iNickStuff said:
Who in the club is/are responsible for a leak like this en masse?
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Nobody knows. That's the really interesting bit. Could be a deliberate leak, could be someone acting of their own accord. If it's the latter then, well, that's regrettable. If it's the former... United management are dickheads.
 
Nick Chelsea said:
Ok, can't be bothered to go back and review a billion pages, so, Mike and Joel, I wanna hear your opinion please. Positives, negatives, etc.
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I was much less supportive after the nature of the performances vs Liverpool and City. If the players won't play for you in games like that, then something is clearly afoot. I still think managers deserve time, and in an ideal world Moyes would have got it, but it's an awful lot easier to replace a manager than a team. He's also never been the manager he was at Everton, and has always looked like a man over awed by the job rather than one taking control of it.
 
rephlex said:
Well, they also tapped up Moyes and made him run down his contract at Everton so they didn't have to pay Everton a year of his contract either (?3m?). So it seems even for much smaller figures, the Glazers arn't against this sort of vaguely distateful underhand sort of business.

Hiring him for 10 months then trying to increase the already immense pressure on him so he just quits his job is pretty horrible mind you, Moyes seems like a nice guy with integrity, and I can't imagine that dilemma of constant pressure yesterday on top of a horrible season would have been easy.
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Moyes admitted to tapping up players as well 3 weeks ago, regarding the champs league or not issue, any players we've spoken too, have indicated its not a problem.. lol.
 
I for one have to "applaud" the way this was handled via media circles, and the press by the parties involved. It was handled in the way I expected by a bunch of conniving arseholes. The way this situation has been handled is nothing more than a f***ing disgrace.

This has nothing towards the slight bias I have towards David Moyes I would say the same thing if it happened to any manager, and it sums up what I hate about these sort of insects that infest football. Bunch of arseholes.

That is all I have to say on this.
 
To be honest I don't care how he was sacked... he's damaged the club significantly in such a short period, it's been so painful that even other teams fans were flooding social media and everything else to try and keep him in the job, acting on behalf of United fans of course. I do find it ironic when Chelsea and Liverpool fans are trying to act like they have sympathy with Moyes and their clubs have never done anything of the sort in the past.

Lets not make excuses for Moyes... it was an absolute terrible reign... he didn't shown virtually anything of the signs he did when he was Everton manager and he let himself and the club massively down. We all know he is capable of better.

Oh and to GC, stop being a tool. Telegraph are one of the more reliable papers compared to others anyway. Pep Guardiola isn't totally out of this world unrealistic, we all know he wants a job in England at some point anyway. If he wins the CL to add to the Bundesliga he may well question what else he can achieve there anyway.

I'm not saying it's realistic by the way, just don't be like that when he's just sharing a story which isn't out of this world unrealistic like you suggest. The messi one however... lets move on.

LVG for a few years would be a great option no matter how you look at it. But he still in an ideal world where we would have the pick of loads of good managers, wouldn't be my choice obviously.
 
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It's a little humorous that Louis Van Gaal seems like the type of manager, if Manuel Pellegrini were to leave, that Manchester City could actually do with.
 
How can people talk about moyes not living upto to Uniteds way, when we're not doing it ourselves. If you can't see or don't care how we handled it, you just sound like a Glazer to me. And that's as low as one can be regardless of how one feels about Moyes.
 
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