The Premier League Thread

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Sneaky. I see what you did there by going past 15 rather than 16 years.

I kind of like that. :P
 
Alc said:
That is neither here nor there. Chelsea have been the most successful English team in Europe over the past 15 years despite having the highest turnover in managers. The reason we do poorly in Europe is largely due to the lack of a winter break and an extra cup competition.
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I respectfully disagree. The big clubs in England are able to compete to a degree because of their money. However, in just about every other country, there is a reasonable turnover in which clubs qualify for Europe - e.g. Sassuolo qualified for the first time last season, Hoffenheim this season, variation between the Spanish sides like Sevilla, Athletic, Sociedad, Villareal - and perform well.

Mid table PL outfits? Barring an exceptional amount of luck, not much chance of that - even Leicester last year had an easy CL group and then got battered by Sevilla and were fortunate to go through.

The safe midtable PL sides just sign the same players, swap the same managers between one another and wonder why they never get anywhere. The only way any of them qualify for Europe is if one of the big 6 implodes, and then no doubt the next season they will finish low in the PL and fall at the Europa League group stage. Even Southampton, a well run club, failed in this last season.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Sneaky. I see what you did there by going past 15 rather than 16 years.

I kind of like that. :P
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What are you on about? I took 15 years to be from the start of the Ambramovich era. By all accounts, we should look behind a shorter number of years in which case, my point still holds.
 
Alc said:
What are you on about? I took 15 years to be from the start of the Ambramovich era. By all accounts, we should look behind a shorter number of years in which case, my point still holds.
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What am I on about?

The 2000's, Chelsea are the 3rd most successful club in Europe from England behind Utd and, hot **** who'd of thought it, those Scouse buggers who apparently just 'live in the past.'

Liverpool have won 4 UEFA trophys (a European Cup/ UEFA Cup and 2 Super Cups)/ Utd 3 (a European Cup/ UEFA Cup and FIFA Club World Cup <for the purpose of this we'll include that), and Chelsea 2. (A European Cup/ UEFA Cup.).

****, in major UEFA finals contested, you don't even come out on top this Century. That would be Liverpool 4 (2 European Cup/ 2 UEFA Cup), level with Utd on 4. (3 European Cup/ UEFA Cup.). With Chelsea next on 3. (2 European Cup/ 1 UEFA Cup.).

So no, your point holds in no fashion. I was being nice to say you took it over the last 15 years as that would take a UEFA Cup and Super Cup off L'pool by a year. But even then you'd lag behind Utd.

Which ever way you cut it, you know, in the actual things that define success, those silvery thingies, Chelsea are by no means the most successful English side in Europe over recent years.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
What am I on about?

The 2000's, Chelsea are the 3rd most successful club in Europe from England behind Utd and, hot **** who'd of thought it, those Scouse buggers who apparently just 'live in the past.'

Liverpool have won 4 UEFA trophys (a European Cup/ UEFA Cup and 2 Super Cups)/ Utd 3 (a European Cup/ UEFA Cup and FIFA Club World Cup <for the purpose of this we'll include that), and Chelsea 2. (A European Cup/ UEFA Cup.).

****, in major UEFA finals contested, you don't even come out on top this Century. That would be Liverpool 4 (2 European Cup/ 2 UEFA Cup), level with Utd on 4. (3 European Cup/ UEFA Cup.). With Chelsea next on 3. (2 European Cup/ 1 UEFA Cup.).

So no, your point holds in no fashion. I was being nice to say you took it over the last 15 years as that would take a UEFA Cup and Super Cup off L'pool by a year. But even then you'd lag behind Utd.

Which ever way you cut it, you know, in the actual things that define success, those silvery thingies, Chelsea are by no means the most successful English side in Europe over recent years.
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The only thing I care about is Chelsea, Liverpool and United won 1 UCL trophy recently, so that puts them in my eyes on equal footing. If we go a bit back, like 20 years back or more, things start to change, but lets keep it "recent".
I don't agree with the fact that the Europa League is a second tier competition that should not be treated seriously, but let's be honest, neither of the teams above set their objective to win it. Chelsea won it because they F'd up in the group stages of the UCL, and United saw it as an easier route to guarantee UCL football.

If we talk performance, United reached more finals 3, (still talking about recent years), but I'd argue Chelsea has been a bit more consistent, reaching 5 semi's (United 1) and 2 finals.
 
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He wasn't. He was arguing 'success.'

When you start counting anything other than actual trophies in that (and how much more recent can you get than the first two decades of this Century?), then you become a small time outfit.

On the Europa/ UEFA Cup, L'pool certainly set out with their objective to win it in 2000/01. And although Rodgers didn't in 2014/15, it rapidly became that as soon as Klopp arrived 2 group games in. Good luck dealing with the Utd fans on last season.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Good luck dealing with the Utd fans on last season.
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I remember you arguing that United should go for it about a year ago, and most United fans saying they should concentrate on the league :D
As I said, the EL was also a biproduct of their failures on the domestic ground. Still a trophy, nonetheless.
 
Andras99 said:
I remember you arguing that United should go for it about a year ago, and most United fans saying they should concentrate on the league :D
As I said, the EL was also a biproduct of their failures on the domestic ground. Still a trophy, nonetheless.
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Oh, no question. Mike is the only one I can categorically say offhand that was of the same opinion and attitude right from when they qualified for it.

But you know how things get rewritten in here. ;)
 



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Hopefully not another false dawn but made up to see Jordan Ibe getting all the headlines this AM after a super cameo off the bench last night in Bournemouth's first win of the year.

You all but forget he's still a footballer so much as he fallen off a cliff the last few years. Like so many before and doubtless so many still to come, SO frustrating when he's so much natural God-given talent that's just completely wasting away. Don't know if it's an attitude thing or a confidence thing but hopefully, he takes from last night and begins to rebuild it. Still only 21 so it's not like a good career isn't still all there for him.

Not holding my breath but just nice to see a decent lad get the limelight once again.
 
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zzeezzy said:
Really hard to look past City for the title, sadly.
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That's never not been the case. By far and away the best squad in the league.

But let's not get carried away so early and crown them in September. They were being dominated and could well have ended up drawing or losing the game last weekend if it had remained 11 vs. 11. Today they do what they can do when they all click. Wallop anyone. But they also have a propensity to slip up unexpectedly.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
That's never not been the case. By far and away the best squad in the league.

But let's not get carried away so early and crown them in September. They were being dominated and could well have ended up drawing or losing the game last weekend if it had remained 11 vs. 11. Today they do what they can do when they all click. Wallop anyone. But they also have a propensity to slip up unexpectedly.
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People were crowning them champs last season early on. Turned out well. Yes they have a good squad. But still suspect at the back. And not long away from an injury to Kompany and most likely Gundogan. Problem there's always something not far away from blowing up. Like Aguero or Toure in the past. Gonna be really tough keeping everyone happy.
 
It's impossible to call definitively, but I do think if you finish above the Manchester clubs, you win the title.
 
Theatre of dreams said:
People were crowning them champs last season early on. Turned out well. Yes they have a good squad. But still suspect at the back. And not long away from an injury to Kompany and most likely Gundogan. Problem there's always something not far away from blowing up. Like Aguero or Toure in the past. Gonna be really tough keeping everyone happy.
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Anyone crowning anyone in September is a fool to be kind.

But when it comes to City, I just don't see anyone close to their playing resources. Even when they're off, they still have that many options that can score 2 or 3 on a side in no time. City's flaws are masked by their ridiculous firepower, Nobody else comes close to that.

Chelsea, L'pool and Utd all have different glaring flaws and all are on a very similar level. Tottenham too if they didn't have Wembley. Arsenal just seem on the road to nowhere to be kind.

But still, the period from November through the NY after the last International will decide the league. What is, something like 14 league games, a couple CL and possibly 2 League Cups? All in less than a two-month period.

Real war of attrition there through the winter.
 
What's with Tottenham and Wembley?

Man alive this season could set them back. Don't want to be going back WHL on a downer from Wembley.
 
Felt a bit sorry for Watford after watching MOTD. 2 of Cities first 3 gls were offside. And denied a clear penalty. God knows why there was any disputes between Sterling and Aguero about who takes there peno. Aguero was clearly designated taker. Sterling got his way in the after crying to Pep.
 
The sooner we have VAR the better. How Spurs never got 2 penalties I never know! Refs seriously robbing team of points and could be of a title challenge or even Prem safety over a season!
 
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