This game is sooooo scripted!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I lost 2-0 to Wigan with West Ham, very next game won 3-1 against Liverpool. If the game is scripted then someone needs the sack for allowing my hammers team to beat Liverpool. nearly fell of my chair when ref blow final whistle. Shocked is not the word.......lol :)
 
Well well. I've been searching the net for a decent FM11 forum and came upon this one, but I guess this may be my first and last post. I'm totally amazed at the lack of knowledge and ignorance being displayed in this thread prefaced by 'definitely this, positively that and I'm sure the other'.

Guys, have a bit of respect for those telling you that they've been playing FM for years. RM-CdF, Piginho, santosh82 et al are absolutely correct on this. Plus they've given you a simple way of proving this for yourself if you don't believe them - try it out, but to do so properly you'll need to spend several years in the game like some of us have :p

There are indeed certain 'almost unwinnable' matches that will pop up at particular stages in your career to 'keep you in your place'. This is common knowledge and doesn't ruin the fun for most.
 
I'm totally amazed at the lack of knowledge and ignorance being displayed in this thread prefaced by 'definitely this, positively that and I'm sure the other'.
There are indeed certain 'almost unwinnable' matches that will pop up at particular stages in your career to 'keep you in your place'. This is common knowledge and doesn't ruin the fun for most.

I don't want to call you hypocritical, but that's... well. It's hypocritical.
 
Salzburg - Base quality 20, Form +10, morale +10, happyness +10, gelling +10, confidence +10, harmony +10 = 80

Arsenal - Base quality 70, Form -10, morale -10, happyness -10, gelling -10, confidence -10, harmony -10 = 10.

srand();
result = rand() % 90;
if (result <80) then Salzburg wins;
if (result >= 80) then Arsenal wins;

Question: How many times will the inferior base quality will end winning because the mods have shot their chances up and shot down the one of the higher quality?. How do we know the outside tactic factors can't have such an effect that the theorically weak team goes in the match with some modifiers for the random events that turn it to have such a better chance than the tactics aren't enough?. Maybe the weak has some positives that have received too high value by the match engine. And remember in the case of Olympique de Marseille, that no matter where they are in RL (I don't really follow football), in FM it's considered a strong team.

Though I have had to reload a few matches and I've never seen it, I won first, lost next, lost massively first, won next... every possible combination; I won't deny at times you may get the itch it happens, if you reload a Man Utd vs Dags & Reds and Dag keep winning 3-0, for example.

But what is the sample of such events?. What is the frequency that results are repeated vs those where they aren't?. And what among each possible level difference pairing? Have that stat been done? Or it's just it happened to four guys with one or two matches and are jumping at conclusions too early and let themselves be carried by a very annoying but not statistically signifficant occurance?

And why scripted?. Why not anti-cheat hidden feature?.

EXIT:
saveinfo *last_save() = new info;
matchinfo *match() = new match;

last_save = check_lastsave_date();
match = check_lastmatch_date();

savedafter = is_save_newer_than_match(last_save, match);
weak = is_last_match_vs_weak(match);
scoreline = retrieve_last_match_score();
was_lost = was_last_match_lost(match);
if (!savedafter && weak && was_lost)
apply_nocheat();
....

void apply_nocheat(){
write_last_save_cheated_must_lose_first_match_to_prevent_effective_cheating_variable(scoreline);
return;
}

Next load...

LOAD:
cheated = check_cheat_variable();

score = check_cheat_score();

if (cheated){
next_team = find_next_oppotision();
apply_one_match_boost(next_team, score);


Have you checked the write date of the save file after closing when you reload and compare to the time when you saved and you reloaded?.


Bad luck can be a very harsh mistress. I've had more numerous experiences in the sense that FM05 had powers to read the mind than you can have of scripted games. Every [censored] time I thought "I should change this part of tactics?... hmmm... " there was the opposition scoring!. Gaaaaaaaah!! FM05 gets inside my head and every time it detects I'm thinking on modifying tactics it decides to get the goal before I do!. Well, nope, despite how creepy frequently it happened. I swear, no less than 85% of times I thought of tactical changes I received a goal before clicking the button to get me to tactic screen, no input to the game that could hint I was considering any changes.

If you want to convince us of scripting, give us numbers. How many scripted or not scripted?. What conditions each?. What are the whole set of variables and data that can possibly affect the match for either side?

Or FM05 has a mind reading program with FM05 that doesn't need peripherals for mind reading?
 
Last edited:
this thread prefaced by 'definitely this, positively that and I'm sure the other'.
absolutely correct on this.
I rest my case.

If there is absolute proof where is it? No one has been bothered to present any, for or against, and are just making arguments with no substance - including myself. So as far as I'm concerned this thread is a waste of space.
 
My heart bleeds for you losing 4 - 1 to Marseille and being so humiliated that you simply had to re-load the game

I'm Liverpool and I lost 5 - 2 to West Brom, all i did was ******* my team and issued warnings out to the bad performers (I'm looking at YOU Glen Johnson) and the next result was a 4 - 1 victory over Newcastle (who are somehow extremely good on my save)

Every team has their good and bad days, look at Chelsea, I bet Ancelotti wanted to re-load the Sunderland match at the weekend
 
good god stop by making comments the guy shouldn't reload. what does it add to say that again and again?

And I don't think the thread itself is a waste of space like Tharros says. Sure, people disagree, but that's not necessarily a waste of space it is more a space to start a discussion. This discussion has been more in depth than many other threads I've been reading recently...
 
I thought is was about dice throws...or mathamatical ones.

when the game is played many dice are being rolled as it were...but many were also rolled before the game and can have a bigger impact than imagined.
I think most are right here but rather the game being scripted surely its more a case of random miniscripts pieced together by random events...thats the game in my mind anyhow.
 
The game is not scripted, the result of a game was predetermined BEFORE the match began on earlier games. In recent years however the actions you take, such as substitutions, team talks, formation/mentality changes have an impact on the result during a game.

Anyone who seriously believes that the game has already decided you are going to lose a certain game regardless of your input needs to take off their tin-foil helmets and stop being so paranoid.
 
If u play a one of the group matches in champions league for example, and say lose, take a hard look at the screen where all the other group matches are listed. Now reload, play it again and even if YOUR result doesnt seem to change you will see that the other games were different.
Conclusion: a result is not decided before the match.
 
Look guys, fine have it your way - I and a few others in here are just trying to give you the benefit of personal experience on this, so yes this is subjective. Nowhere did you see me complain about a specific result or whine in any way shape or form. As I said, this is an aspect of the game thats always been there and folks generally grow to accept it.

After over 30 years of programming experience and playing FM since Champ Man 03 99/00 I think I can at least say that what I'm talking about (ie 'almost unwinnable' games popping up from time to time in predictable circumstances) is at the very least reproducable.

I have came to no conclusions that extensive scripting is present in the game in any other form. I've never been prevented from winning a trophy by an almost unwinnable game. I've never been relegated by an almost unwinnable game. So for most folks the odd game like this popping up to 'keep things realistic' is acceptable.

I've been a LLM fan since the early days and, predictably, the 'almost unwinnable game' will pop up when your team is doing 'too well' ie better than would be realistically possible in the real world. Usually, as someone else said, just after hitting 1st place in the league with an unfancied team and in most cases when you have a 100% record. I've had this happen at various stages of the season on many occasions.

On the occasions when its happened at an early stage, eg 4 or 5 or 6 games into the season I've actually played the season from scratch again with the same team but buying different players and (in case factors like players becoming too complacent are kicking in) varying tactics from both Tactical Theorems 10 and Communication & Phychological Warfare 10 (both are publications I highly recommend). Guess what? Very soon after topping the league (and I'm talking about Blue Square North/South level here :$) the almost unwinnable game kicks in. *Shrug* no biggy, I just get on with playing what I think is the best football management sim around.
 
Last edited:
More than likely that your players Important Match hidden stat is quite low. Or, you are clearly not using the right tactics to put Marseille away. 4-5-1 against Marseille.;)
 
I had a weird game, that I can never seem to win. I ended up losing that game (along with Livingston and Kilmarnock) and somehow beat Queen of the South, with Killie beating Livi, and managed to win promotion to the SPL in my 3rd year as Elgin.

Hardly scripted in terms of overall performances, but there are some extremely difficult games.
 
So one match has a shock result, and it's all scripted.

Bonuses for good things can be higher for weaker teams and the negatitves higher for stronger, as a way to ensure that shock results will happen. Has it been given any consideration that maybe Luton had been given so many psychological bonuses it goes beynd the pure tactical?. No, it's rigged, I lost this game and lost again, it can't be the other issues have changed the expected.

And the data was given.

What data?.

Where is your tactic? Where is your line up? Where is your squad? Where is your squad PR? Where is your squad morale? Where your past results? Where your squad harmony? Where the dates of when your players joined? Where is the length of time for which you played such formation? Where's the settle status or transfer speculation state of mind of your players?. And where is every one of those... for the weaker team?. Where is all that relevant data to say all those things can't be tilting the scales for the weaker team more than you could make up with the impromptu tactic?. NOWHERE!.

Data?. Ha! Ha! and Ha!.

Only an hypothesis and one or a few cases that raised the suspicion. That is hardly data.

I'll tell you equivalent data/hypothesis pairing: a lot of people I know got cured from viral colds after chugging antibiotics/antibiotics work against viruses (or colds are all bacterial)..

Have you had a surprise win and tried reloading to see if you won again and again?. And did then use pure trash tactics like 5 centrbacks as AMs and five others as MCs and a midfielder as goalie?.

Your hypothesis falsability: if I don't see it, it's just not one of the scripted... and so on and so on and so on until I stumble upon the 0,001% cases that seem to comply with it.
 
Last edited:
I smell bullshit, screenshots please?

:D would you like photocopies of my computing degree as well and maybe a couple of photos to prove how old & ugly I am? :p

Its really no problem if you don't believe what I'm saying - its a free world after all and I have no agenda here. Plus, I know that eventually, given enough game time you'll come to the same conclusion that I have.
 
If you look at the league and one save Arsenal come 3rd and the next they come 12th, suggesting the game is scripted would mean the outcome of every team has been decided and as you go on you'll realise it cant be.
 
The game is not scripted, the result of a game was predetermined BEFORE the match began on earlier games. In recent years however the actions you take, such as substitutions, team talks, formation/mentality changes have an impact on the result during a game.

Anyone who seriously believes that the game has already decided you are going to lose a certain game regardless of your input needs to take off their tin-foil helmets and stop being so paranoid.

Greatest respect Jake, but you're wrong. Even in the earlier games, when you came across one of these so called "scripted" games, if you kept on replaying, eventually you would win, if you had the patience.

In fact, I have never come across one of these games that couldn't be won eventually!

It's just the fact that it takes sooooo many replays, that suggests some programming alterations to normal algorithms has taken place to adjust probabilities heavily in favour of you losing.

Death Ball says "one shock result and it's all scripted"

No one's saying it's all scripted, in fact what many are saying is that often, when you're doing very well a certain set of parameters are identified by the game and it then does something to adjust the normal mathematical algorithms to affect the probabilities in certain games.

Some one suggested that playing is like operating lots of swithches and that how you operate them will determine your success.

This also is not true!

To prove it I suggest you try the following:-

Take your game at any point, but just before a match to make things easier, and save it 5 times i.e. save a, save b, save c etc.

Doing it 5 times will prove beyond doubt that randomness is built into the game.

Then play your match using exactly, and I mean exactly, the same settings for everything, tactics, team selection, team talk, media comments and everything else. Play the match 5 times and you will not get exactly the same result.

It is possible, though inprobable, that you will get the same scoreline, but even if you were to get the same scorer (scorers) in all 5 games, (almost impossible), the goals will certainly have come at different times.

Also check out the match stats, they will not be identical.

This will prove beyond any doubt that there is randomness built into the software.

Now I don't have to know the specific algorithms used by a software designer, to recognize it's effect in the real world.

I.e. If I buy a car with "sport" and "comfort" settings built into the compuer controlled suspension software, when I go over a bump in sport mode, I'm not saying "I wonder what mathematical algorithms the software designer has used," as I can feel it as my vertibrae compress and it sends a signal to my brain informing me that I'm probably in sport mode!

If you have to replay a game 10-20 times in order to change a negative result to a positive, and I'm talking about a game you'd expect to win i.e. Chelsea at home to Sunderland at the Bridge, it's fair to say that the game designers have built in some method of adjusting the probability of seeing an inprobable result and this can be proven effectively, by the number of times a replay is required.

The higher the number of replays required, the greater the adjustment to inbuilt probabilities.

In conclusion:-

No match result is truly "scripted" in the absolute sense.

Randomness exists in the game and is in fact necessary to make the game interesting.

Probabilities are and always have been adjusted in a very significant way for certain games under certain conditions. This is not paranoia, and is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is born out by years of observation and can be proven by experimentation.

To all of limited intelligence, who keep saying don't cheat by replaying, you're missing the point of this thread. To replay or not replay is a personal choice and it's up to each individual to determine how they like to play.

I play this game over network with my son and we normally agree a fixed number of replays per season. It works for us, though personally, in a 2 player game I would prefer no replays at all.

This thread is about asking whether the software designers have built in a mechanism to significantly effect certain games and I can assure you based on much more than just the above, that they most certainly have!
 
The game IS scripted, EG in FM10 Man City always signed Darijo Srna as it was scripted that way.

However, matches being scripted? I don't think so. First off, you have no proof of this. Give me some screenies and I'll give you further comments on the matter. All teams lose games heavily occasionally, just look at the weekend, no one expected Sunderland to beat Chelsea 3-0.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top