Why do people still think Newcastle are a big club?

[GodCubed]

Yep Liverpool fans do it too. But I've been watching some matches in the pub, and lets just say some (stress some) of the younger generation are shall we say, less receptive. But the older fans definately show respect. Suppose it depends how much they hate the other team I guess.

I think that's right. I find that the younger generation are more willing to boo anyone (injured opposition players is something that really riles me) and oddly enough all the Prem games in the south that I've been to seem to have that same sense of childish disrespect for the opposition.

 

[ajt09]

I think that's right. I find that the younger generation are more willing to boo anyone (injured opposition players is something that really riles me) and oddly enough all the Prem games in the south that I've been to seem to have that same sense of childish disrespect for the opposition.

Yeah, it's quite sad. There's a time to just put aside hatred, and just appreciate what a footballer has done for the game. When I was younger I used to hate what Rush, Dalglish, Norman Whiteside did against Everton. But when I got older, I just learned to accept they did it, because they were exceptionally gifted footballers. Maybe when they get older, they'll get wiser and see the same thing.

 

[Athe~]

It's a global issue, happens here in Argentina too. When Racing won the cup against Celtic in the 60's, their first match was at bitter rivals Independiente, and the whole stadium stood up and applauded them. Now people just hope their rivals lose, going as far as to support anyone who plays their rivals. There was an unspoken code of chivalry in older fans, something that has been lost.

One of Everton's problems with going forward is they are not as well known outside of England and Europe as say Newcastle and Liverpool, they need to impose themselves on the foreign markets, like ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool and even Newcastle do. There is a lot more to this than just shirt sales. Setting up a program in these poorer nations can even give them a first option on some cracking players.

I resent the term 'poorer nations', although I do agree with you up to a point. One of the reasons I consider myself an Everton supporter and not a fan is because I can't even get a ****** Everton shirt here in Argentina. Although NUFC aren't too well known around here, either (You can probably get a Newcastle top as opposed to an Everton one, though, probably due to Coloccini and Jonás). You can, however see many MUFC, L'Pool, Arsenal and even City shirts recently (Courtesy of Tevez, most likely). Chelsea shirts are also rare, I've only seen a few people wearing them and most of them were black.

 

[StuW]

I resent the term 'poorer nations', although I do agree with you up to a point. One of the reasons I consider myself an Everton supporter and not a fan is because I can't even get a ****** Everton shirt here in Argentina. Although NUFC aren't too well known around here, either (You can probably get a Newcastle top as opposed to an Everton one, though, probably due to Coloccini and Jonás). You can, however see many MUFC, L'Pool, Arsenal and even City shirts recently (Courtesy of Tevez, most likely). Chelsea shirts are also rare, I've only seen a few people wearing them and most of them were black.

I admit the way I wrote that wasn't quite right. Let's say the 'lesser footballing nations', such as China, Thailand and so on. It could be something simple as maybe buying a player from that country(ie someone from Argentina/Korea) which would spark interest, and in turn the rest.

 

[Athe~]

I admit the way I wrote that wasn't quite right. Let's say the 'lesser footballing nations', such as China, Thailand and so on. It could be something simple as maybe buying a player from that country(ie someone from Argentina/Korea) which would spark interest, and in turn the rest.

No worries, mate. Just realised after reading myself through your quote that I may have just sounded like a racist **** by saying most Chelsea fans here are black, so just to clarify - most african-argentines are either recent immigrants or their children, so they're probably not part of an established market but something they brought with them. I've seen 'locals' with Chelsea shirts but they're a rarity.

 

[Frutty]

Tottenham are bigger than both of these clubs anyway.

 

[sunilvk7]

One of Everton's problems with going forward is they are not as well known outside of England and Europe as say Newcastle and Liverpool, they need to impose themselves on the foreign markets, like ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool and even Newcastle do. There is a lot more to this than just shirt sales. Setting up a program in these poorer nations can even give them a first option on some cracking players.

Shearer and Sir Bobby Robson played a very big role to get world wide recognition. One big advantage newcastle do have is they had few of the best players in the PL era and also some of the finest managers managing them(Or big players who became managers).

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

Same thing with Everton fans as well, from what I can see. One thing I particularly liked at Goodison Park was the applause for Friedel when he ran out to take his place, I learnt that's some kind of tradition. Nice touch.

I like Goodison a lot. Its like Highbury. Horrible place for visiting team. Crowd will be so close to the ground its unreal. Highbury was ******* fantatic and also the way it was broadcasted (Camera setup) was completely different from other grounds.

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

I think that's right. I find that the younger generation are more willing to boo anyone (injured opposition players is something that really riles me) and oddly enough all the Prem games in the south that I've been to seem to have that same sense of childish disrespect for the opposition.

Exactly. Booing the injured player is the lowest of low. I know few teams have done that, Wont name it to avoid arguments

And also from what I have seen and interacted, Older generation are very appreciative of great players, modern day generation, people are so bitter. (Sometime me too even though I'm not really modern day fan )

 

[Nil Satis Nisi Optimum]

Tottenham are bigger than both of these clubs anyway.

Not necessarily. I would say more people around the world has heard of Newcastle more than Spurs, Spurs are getting a lot of attention now because of the likes of Bale, Modric and Van Der Vaart as well as their champion league stint.

I admit the way I wrote that wasn't quite right. Let's say the 'lesser footballing nations', such as China, Thailand and so on. It could be something simple as maybe buying a player from that country(ie someone from Argentina/Korea) which would spark interest, and in turn the rest.

We're actually big in Thailand.. but that's only because of our shirt sponsor XD But yeah i get your point, we aren't well known outside of the Europe or even the UK for that matter! We we're lucky when we had Steven Pienaar, that led to a Everton Supporters Club in South Africa which had quite a big following as did our fan base in Australia because of Cahill and in the U.S. because we had their most well-known sports-star Landon Donovan. But yeah in general, Newcastle are much better recognized world-wide and well, are a bigger club.

 

[Frutty]

Not necessarily. I would say more people around the world has heard of Newcastle more than Spurs, Spurs are getting a lot of attention now because of the likes of Bale, Modric and Van Der Vaart as well as their champion league stint.

What are you talking about? That's why Tottenham is in top ten of the most successful teams in England?

 

[Dunc]

What are you talking about? That's why Tottenham is in top ten of the most successful teams in England?

For what, the past.. 3/4 years? Before that, we were consistently in the top four, and have been in the Champions league many times, compared to Spurs's one time. Sure they are having a better time of it now, but that is relatively recent success, and is relatively incomparable to our past success, only a few years before hand.

I think in relative terms, we have more global support compared to Spurs, but I imagine if they keep their league form over the next few seasons, with a few more seasons in the champions league, then I expect them to surpass us, if we don't make the same step up.

 

[Frutty]

For what, the past.. 3/4 years? Before that, we were consistently in the top four, and have been in the Champions league many times, compared to Spurs's one time. Sure they are having a better time of it now, but that is relatively recent success, and is relatively incomparable to our past success, only a few years before hand.

I think in relative terms, we have more global support compared to Spurs, but I imagine if they keep their league form over the next few seasons, with a few more seasons in the champions league, then I expect them to surpass us, if we don't make the same step up.

Football League Champions 1950-51, 1960-61;
F.A.Cup Winners 1900-01, 1920-21, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1966-67, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1990-91;
Football League Cup Winners 1970-71, 1972-73, 1998-99, 2007-08;
European Cup-Winners Cup Winners 1962-63;
UEFA Cup Winners 1971-72, 1983-84;

Might have been at 'random' the winnings of Premier League title, but unlike Newcastle, who won all their titles in 1910s, we have had a good squad back in 60-70.
I do not miss Newcastle being in top four in the last years and of course, they were great in my oppinion, but it happens the same to Tottenham. Few times in top four, then they dropped the positions until they got relegated. If I do not miss anything, dear Dunc, Newcastle was in CL for two times and they were not able to pass the groups not even once, unlike Tottenham, who beat Italian giants, Inter and AC Milan.
As for honours, I put all I own that Tottenham are above Newcastle in this case.

 

[Sid]

I think that's right. I find that the younger generation are more willing to boo anyone (injured opposition players is something that really riles me) and oddly enough all the Prem games in the south that I've been to seem to have that same sense of childish disrespect for the opposition.

Even worse when they stand next to the player who has a broken leg and swares at them but that's for another day (DIOUF YOU ****)



And Everton fans, don't worry about your stadium, it's not that bad compared to ours

 

[Dunc]

Might have been at 'random' the winnings of Premier League title, but unlike Newcastle, who won all their titles in 1910s, we have had a good squad back in 60-70.
I do not miss Newcastle being in top four in the last years and of course, they were great in my oppinion, but it happens the same to Tottenham. Few times in top four, then they dropped the positions until they got relegated. If I do not miss anything, dear Dunc, Newcastle was in CL for two times and they were not able to pass the groups not even once, unlike Tottenham, who beat Italian giants, Inter and AC Milan.
As for honours, I put all I own that Tottenham are above Newcastle in this case.

We still managed to do this:

[video=youtube;DPGe9OrT53Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPGe9OrT53Y[/video]

We were technically in it three times, but one of those times we only got into the qualifying round after being knocked out on pennos.

Anyway, it's true that Spurs have more silverware, the point I was trying to make, is that we have had a more widespread following over Europe due to our relative success in the 90's/early 00's, when football was becoming more widely available on the TV for foreign countries. While I wouldn't dispute at this day, if you measured the amount of new supporters being brought in by Spurs and Newcastle, I imagine Spurs would be well ahead of us in some areas, while we would excel above them in other areas. If the size of the club is determined on success, then teams like Man City and Chelsea (not so much), will obviously be seen as 'smaller' clubs, but with allot of potential to become massive clubs, obviously, with success you gain more support, but with being based in the capital, I imagine that would have a slightly detrimental effect on the capture of new fans, mainly because you have allot of other teams that people can choose from, while we at Newcastle, have a rather captured audience, although obviously the amount of people we can influence in Newcastle, is allot less then those in London.

Although, personally, I don't think that success can be determined by either success or fan base, but rather a mixture of the two. Also, it needs to be taken into consideration how recent the success has been, because by all accounts, while I appreciate that history is a big part of a club, I wouldn't take accomplishments over about 30 years into consideration when I am deciding how big I think a club is. I think it needs to mainly be based on recent (10-15 years) success mainly, with fan base a contributing factor.

Anyway, it is all subjective, and opinion, but at the end of the day, that's what a forum is for. I would still put Newcastle above Spurs, although not by much, but I think of recent history (since 90's), we have done more in Europe and in the league, and have had about 16K average higher attendances than Spurs, although I appreciate that is limited by stadium capacity, but tbh, having a nice stadium should also factor into the 'big club' debate, but I think that's common sense, but again, subjective.

 

[Nil Satis Nisi Optimum]

Football League Champions 1950-51, 1960-61;
F.A.Cup Winners 1900-01, 1920-21, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1966-67, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1990-91;
Football League Cup Winners 1970-71, 1972-73, 1998-99, 2007-08;
European Cup-Winners Cup Winners 1962-63;
UEFA Cup Winners 1971-72, 1983-84;

Might have been at 'random' the winnings of Premier League title, but unlike Newcastle, who won all their titles in 1910s, we have had a good squad back in 60-70.
I do not miss Newcastle being in top four in the last years and of course, they were great in my oppinion, but it happens the same to Tottenham. Few times in top four, then they dropped the positions until they got relegated. If I do not miss anything, dear Dunc, Newcastle was in CL for two times and they were not able to pass the groups not even once, unlike Tottenham, who beat Italian giants, Inter and AC Milan.
As for honours, I put all I own that Tottenham are above Newcastle in this case.

In regards to your honors list, only 2 times being league champions is poor. We have won it on 9 occasions with the last in 86/87.. which is over 20 years after you last won one. Even FA Cup, we won our last in 1995.. yours 90/91. So in that sense.. Everton over the last 20 years are a bigger club than Spurs. But winning trophies isn't what makes a club "big". Its every detail including stadium and players. Im not going to say Everton are bigger than Spurs, because it will cause a big debate. Where i could use stats like we have spent 108 seasons in the top flight, more than any other team in England. That doesn't make us any "bigger".
The fact in the matter is, Newcastle are a bigger club than Spurs, only in recent years have Spurs gained worldwide attention. Rapid Wein in Austria have won 32 league titles.. they aren't that big of a club, in fact i would say nobody has heard of them outside of Europe. I dont like basing on stats, but, there are some stats for you.

 

[Athe~]

In regards to your honors list, only 2 times being league champions is poor. We have won it on 9 occasions with the last in 86/87.. which is over 20 years after you last won one. Even FA Cup, we won our last in 1995.. yours 90/91. So in that sense.. Everton over the last 20 years are a bigger club than Spurs. But winning trophies isn't what makes a club "big". Its every detail including stadium and players. Im not going to say Everton are bigger than Spurs, because it will cause a big debate. Where i could use stats like we have spent 108 seasons in the top flight, more than any other team in England. That doesn't make us any "bigger".
The fact in the matter is, Newcastle are a bigger club than Spurs, only in recent years have Spurs gained worldwide attention. Rapid Wein in Austria have won 32 league titles.. they aren't that big of a club, in fact i would say nobody has heard of them outside of Europe. I dont like basing on stats, but, there are some stats for you.

Hey, don't talk bout Rapid like that! Steffen Hofmann <3

Then again I'm a football freak, don't take my opinion seriously.

 

[Nil Satis Nisi Optimum]

Hey, don't talk bout Rapid like that! Steffen Hofmann <3

Then again I'm a football freak, don't take my opinion seriously.

Yeah, thats what i mean, big football fans will know who they are but others outside Europe wont. For instance, most LEDC's (is that term still appropriate?) the kids wear United, Madrid, Barca, Arsenal even Liverpool tops. Newcastle are one of the teams that are known quite well outside of Europe.

Steffen Hoffman is quite the legend at Rapid Wien now haha.

 

[Crayth]

Newcastle are still a big club, because of they're history, and historic managers and players, i.e. Sir Bobby Robson/Alan Shearer, however I don't think they are that good now. But they do play well as a unit, they have some quality players, Demba Ba is quality, enough said. Then you have Tiote who is a class act aswell. They are nothing special but are still a decent side, Top 10 quality for sure.

 

[prow07]

Newcastle are a big club, not as big as it used to be but if you forget the fact we have suffered relegation and all that stuff, we are a big club, with a big wage budget (maybe not as big as before, but still one of the largest in the league), St James' Park gets filled with over 50k people every other week, the atmosphere is amazing, the fans love the club and are extremely loyal, and the players have the potential to become icons and play in the legendary number 9 shirt, and to play in front of a crowd so big and noisy is an honour, and you get to share a pitch with the one and only King Shola, i mean, there is nothing better than that.. this is why players love to play at Newcastle

 

[Toonz]

As a honest Newcastle fan, I admit Tottenham have been over us in the last 5-6 years, but we had our turning point around 00's. I'd rate Tottenham a bit bigger over us, but we have a better stadium and probably more loyal fans (not sure about it). As we going to the count, we probably have more fans in England than Tottenham, although I am not that sure.
Anyway, I'd rather choose Newcastle over Everton if I was a player, for the history we had, the great stadium and fans and a superb city. We're the best team in North England and best in the city, unlike Everton who in the past few years they lived in Liverpool FC's shadow (no offense, but it is true).

 

[Nil Satis Nisi Optimum]

As a honest Newcastle fan, I admit Tottenham have been over us in the last 5-6 years, but we had our turning point around 00's. I'd rate Tottenham a bit bigger over us, but we have a better stadium and probably more loyal fans (not sure about it). As we going to the count, we probably have more fans in England than Tottenham, although I am not that sure.
Anyway, I'd rather choose Newcastle over Everton if I was a player, for the history we had, the great stadium and fans and a superb city. We're the best team in North England and best in the city, unlike Everton who in the past few years they lived in Liverpool FC's shadow (no offense, but it is true).

Your point about history is quite unfair. We have won far more trophies than Newcastle, we are the 3rd most successful English footballing side. So i dont think Newcastle have a better history, only more Champions League appearances. I also think in the past 5 years or so we have been a better club than Newcastle, we are a constant top 10 team with high ambition but low money. I dont think we've lived in Liverpool's shadow, they get more coverage because they are a "bigger" team, the past again 5 years we have closed the gap (bar the year L'Pool finished 2nd) and on 1 occasion finished higher than them. I do think Newcastle are a bigger club, but i think your reasons against Everton where harsh.