I have posted about this before, almost all my highlights were from corners and long throw ins, it wasn't fun anymore. Perhaps the AI was somehow compensating, making your team create less chances from open play because of all the chances created from set pieces?

Have you experienced better football and more goals from open play without the exploits? If so, can you share a version of the the tactic with a good regular corner setup?

Mate, the game doesn't work this way. I just don't understand where you guys take all these ideas about "AI compensate something" or "AI learn your tactic and then it stops workiing"... when I hear it I just can't hold my laugh...:)

You see a ton of highlight of the corners and the throw-ins because a ton of half chances and clear cut chances are created after the corners and the throw-ins... that's why... and that's all... no magic here... :)

"Short corner" and "long bullet throw-in" help you to boost your result about 40-30% compare if you would played without it and if you remove it then be ready that your results drop by this amount... I'm just ready for it because I like tougher challenge and when I win because of these exploits I just don't get fun from the game. :)

Without these "exploits" it usually takes me 2-3 seasons more to win Champions League with low league clubs such as Middlesbrough or Leeds because in order to win Champions League without these exploits you need to have a really strong team which consist of the best players...

Heh, funny thing even with these exploits I see that people complain about that they lose sometimes and I just can't imagine what happens if these exploits would be fixed… Btw, this tactic would be affected the less than other tactics because it scores much less from the corners than other tactics. :)
 
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If you play without short corners and long throws, what exactly do you change?

Set corners to mixed?
Still the left fullback taking corners or best corner taker?
Set throws to mixed? (I dont use any long bullt thrower)


I am a bit surprised to read this comment. Since you invested a lot of time lately to improve the corner routine.
I guess that is to compete with other tactics using these exploits.

Myself, I dont want to use any exploits, as it really takes the challenge out of it.
If I get fired because of it, I will just start over without ever using it.
 
Mate, the game doesn't work this way. I just don't understand where you guys take all these ideas about "AI compensate something" or "AI learn your tactic and then it stops workiing"... when I hear it I just can't hold my laugh...:)

You see a ton of highlight of the corners and the throw-ins because a ton of half chances and clear cut chances are created after the corners and the throw-ins... that's why... and that's all... no magic here... :)

"Short corner" and "long bullet throw-in" help you to boost your result about 40-30% compare if you would played without it and if you remove it then be ready that your results drop by this amount... I'm just ready for it because I like tougher challenge and when I win because of these exploits I just don't get fun from the game. :)

Without these "exploits" it usually takes me 2-3 seasons more to win Champions League with low league clubs such as Middlesbrough or Leeds because in order to win Champions League without these exploits you need to have a really strong team which consist of the best players...

Heh, funny thing even with these exploits I see that people complain about that they lose sometimes and I just can't imagine what happens if these exploits would be fixed… Btw, this tactic would be affected the less than other tactics because it scores much less from the corners than other tactics. :)

My english isn't very good, so I'm sorry if I can't express myself as well as I would like. But I play this game since the very first Championship Manager, so I know one thing or two about it.

You are mixing things. I said nothing about the AI learning your tactics. This is a myth people that people have been repeating for years, but still a myth nonetheless (like the second season syndrome, general training affecting tactics and others).

What I said about the AI compensating is because of what I experienced in my game. I was using your tactics, since V1, and was having not only great results, but also great football being played, with lots of open play goals and highlights. And with the more recent versions, it seems that all goals and highlights now come from set pieces. So much that I stopped using it, because it simply wasn't fun anymore. I enjoy watching intricate passing, off the ball movement, one-twos, through balls, and not corner after corner after corner. If your more recent tactics are indeed better, I should be still be seeing good football and lots of open play highlights, plus the set pieces highlights and goals, but thats not what I'm experiencing. And that happened in all of the saves were I was using your tactics.

I was thinking something like this: it's so easy to score from the set pieces exploits (specially when playing with a good team), and as you said, you create so many chances from it, that perhaps after scoring two or three early goals from it, your players become complacent and your team simply don't create or finish many chances on open play anymore. And if you weren't using the exploit, your team would probably still score two or three, but with more open play chances. That's why I asked what is your experience with your tactic without the exploits. If you were experiencing better football without it, because without the exploits, your team has to find other ways to score, if it makes any sense.

In the end, I'm not complaining about you tactics, because, as I have said in previous posts, they are probably the most effective for FM15 (and for FM14 with Epic also), and you sharing it with us is much appreciated. If I'm allowed to complain about anything, it would only be because in the later versions I stopped experiencing the beautiful football that I was seeing before, and started seeing almost only set pieces highlights. That's what I'm trying to find an explanation for.
 
if you score earlier it could have a psychological effect on your team (i'm not 100% sure how the ME works with this, but it's the only plausible explanation), especially in the second half, but this could be countered with better use of team talk shouts/half time team talks

the amount of highlights you get has nothing to do with goals though, i've had 5 goal games end in under 5 minutes, and 0-0 draws go for over 10 minutes, same goes for high/low chance creation games

also you have to remember this game has a lot of random elements, you could do the same transfers, same selection, same tactic, same team, and both seasons could be 1-10 positions apart by the end of season, so your case study of a handful of games/a season isn't relevant completely
 
You are mixing things. I said nothing about the AI learning your tactics.

Yes, mate you didn't speak about "AI learns your tactic" and I mentioned that funny myth because you said about "AI compensates something" and for me it sound very similar.

Mate, for me your theory about that if you create many chances from the corners then AI starts reduce your chances from open play sounds the same funny as the theory about "AI learns your tactics".

I see the only reason why you are getting much more highlights/chances/goals from corners and throw-ins with the latest version of the tactic than with the very first version it's because the corner setup has been improved greatly since the very first version of tactic. That's all. :)

Btw, this tactic still scores from the corners as twice less than any other popular tactics on this forum and it scores much more from open play than any other tactic and if suddenly "short corner" will be removed from the game than this tactic will be far beyond by performance than any other tactic because it depends much less on goals from corners than any other tactic.

I am a bit surprised to read this comment. Since you invested a lot of time lately to improve the corner routine.
I guess that is to compete with other tactics using these exploits.
I did it because many people don't mind have such advantage on their side and I don't judge them. I also tried to play with "short corner" exploit but as I said I watch matches on "Key Highlights" or "Extended Highlights" and seeing such many chances/goals from the corners or the throw-ins just kills all fun for me.

If you play without short corners and long throws, what exactly do you change?
I use average corner setup it's similar to what AI teams use in order to don't have advantage above them at this area.
 
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this is the best tactic on the forum hands down

i see people gloating about winning the league in other threads as man united with 40+ goals conceded and 86 points lol

this tactic you win the league with a mid table team with under 30 goals conceded, do good away in europe, and the football is nice to watch

TFF wins this patch hands down, anyone who says other wise got really lucky with another tactic or can't use these ones properly (or bad luck with them)
 
this is the best tactic on the forum hands down

i see people gloating about winning the league in other threads as man united with 40+ goals conceded and 86 points lol

this tactic you win the league with a mid table team with under 30 goals conceded, do good away in europe, and the football is nice to watch

TFF wins this patch hands down, anyone who says other wise got really lucky with another tactic or can't use these ones properly (or bad luck with them)


Are you talking About a specific version or versions ?
 
i don't think people understand that most of the versions are very similar for the most part

the changes aren't drastic, it's usually a few instructions or a role (which doesn't overly change that much, it really depends more on the player/PPM's from what i've noticed personally) or set pieces

this version of FM is VERY random, there are a lot more variables than before, using previous versions of the tactic i could outperform a current version in 2 different saves of the same team same season, it doesn't mean that the old version is better (his tests prove that on average it won't be) but people make knee jerk reactions and assume the old version was better when they chop and change tactics mid season or get a bad run (which happens) early on in a season

i've had varying levels of success (more than expected with an average/default tactic or some of the other tactics on this forum) in multiple leagues, multiple saves, multiple seasons long

your best bet is to chose the update version, try follow the OI/player recommendations as much as possible, and hope you don't get unlucky with your results
 
i don't think people understand that most of the versions are very similar for the most part

the changes aren't drastic, it's usually a few instructions or a role (which doesn't overly change that much, it really depends more on the player/PPM's from what i've noticed personally) or set pieces

this version of FM is VERY random, there are a lot more variables than before, using previous versions of the tactic i could outperform a current version in 2 different saves of the same team same season, it doesn't mean that the old version is better (his tests prove that on average it won't be) but people make knee jerk reactions and assume the old version was better when they chop and change tactics mid season or get a bad run (which happens) early on in a season

i've had varying levels of success (more than expected with an average/default tactic or some of the other tactics on this forum) in multiple leagues, multiple saves, multiple seasons long

your best bet is to chose the update version, try follow the OI/player recommendations as much as possible, and hope you don't get unlucky with your results

If it is so good.. as how you are saying that it is just people messing it up or being unlucky.. how come it is last here ? http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-15-tactics/299463-custom-tactic-shoot-out-2.html , this just shows that sometimes the tactic might just not work because of the team, your opponents etc. That is why I would love to play another version of the one tactic that is giving me amazing results, but that it sucks that I am not able to do that :(

I have also tried the latest reborn version and it did not work for me...
I have tried

(base) v1
(mirror base) v1
(reborn) v1
(F9) v4
(base) v9
(attack) v9
(attack) v11
(ultimate) v3
(ultimate) v7


The only one that has worked for me so far is (ultimate) v7 and that is why it sucks that I am not able to play the v9 of that tactics because it has dissapeared in the ether.
 
those testing treads are a joke tho. if the testing was solid and honest then there wouldnt be 70 threads every 30 days. they show results with all kind of unrealistic scenarios. in the thread you linked it shows results from alot of corner and set piece abusive tactics vs other abusive tactics.. if you look for a good tactic to use vs AI there's no point in testing vs other tactics..
 
There's some impressive results do you do anything different than what's in the op ??

Heh, dude, I don't know what you mean by "different than what's in the op" I just used TFF's tips from the OP and common sense :)
 
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ribureki, could you show your starting 11 with the apps/assists/goals/average rating show

would be nice to see how your hull team performs player wise
 
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