FM-BASE Community Project- Tiki Taka.

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First leg of the Champions Cup 1st Knockout Round away to Lyon. We really played well in the first half of this game, I'm sure we had 70%+ possession & created a lot but my players became "anxious" & "complacent" in the 2nd half. Was disappointed because Lyon were down to 10 men as well.
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Second leg against Lyon at home, which we just utterly dominated. According to FM, we created no CCC's but we created a lot of very good chances.
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First leg against Real Madrid in the quarter finals of the Champions Cup. Haven't done the 2nd leg yet.
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Now I've established this tactic's consistent, I'm going try coming up with Barca's 3-4-3 formations they use quite often. If you've downloaded my tactic & aren't having much luck with it, you need to have patience. One PPM which is essential is to teach all your central midfielders to "Look For Pass Rather Than Attempting To Score".
 
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I've been trying to work on combining these 2 tactics:

La Masia FM12 classic tactic: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2012-tactics-training/90931-%5Bbarcelona%5D%5Btested-athletic-bilbao%5D-la-masia-philosophy.html
- Good possession stats
- Generally good defensively
- Not enough goals scored, and a lot of the shots were from far out

Passion4FM Tika Taka: Barcelona Tiki-Taka 4-3-2-1 | Football Manager Possession Tactic | Passion for Football Manager
- Good all round
- Doesn't really follow the Barca shape I want, emulates the 4-3-3 they play and a BWM isn't really Busquets

So I've tried to combine the two and I've come up with the following so far:

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Wander if anyone has any ideas for some of my problems.

Messi:
If I put Messi where he is, sometimes he is too high up the pitch, and too far away from the likes of Iniesta/Pedro, and if he is in an AM position, we don't really have any penetration higher up the pitch, and there is no pressure on the CBs. Any ideas how to make him more like he is in real life?

Alves+Alba/Busquets/Pique:
I'm trying to get the WBs to push forward alot as you can see, but when they do, sometimes Busquets is too far ahead of the CBs. I'm trying to make him play like he does for Barca, in that when the WBs push forward, he drops back to form an almost back 3, while still playing his part in building up the play and linking with Xavi/Iniesta. I've tried playing him as an Anchor and as a DM but nothing is quite working.

The positives however are that I have won every game this season so far (about 30% through the season) and I'm not leaking many goals. Will update as I go, I'm getting around 65% possession most games, trying to improve that though as I would like 70%+ vs weak teams like Barca do in real life. So my final question is, anyone got an ideas how I can improve my pressing, I would like to win the ball back much quicker than I am at the moment.
 
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Forgot to post, here is the positional map from the last game vs Ajax, but sometimes Messi goes too high. This game he was okay, however I'd still like some things fixed. The tactic doesnt work very well with the 2nd team in Cup games or games where I need to rest people, mainly in the passing/defending area, sometimes they fail passes and sometimes they leak goals due to dodgy defending. So I won't try it out with a lower team (Bilbao, Swansea etc) until it works with my B team too.

But anyway, as you can see there are lots of passing triangles everywhere.
 
I'm also playing a little with the la masia as most of the 4-3-3 tactics bore me. It LOOKS like converting to classic makes it easier to work with possession.For the striker put rune from deep to often, and learn him the ppm. Same with the DM + stay back ppm
 
Looking good Germainelol. Maybe reduce the the mentality of the striker a bit. Also, try setting the GK to distribute the ball to the DMC.
 
Crane said:
Looking good Germainelol. Maybe reduce the the mentality of the striker a bit. Also, try setting the GK to distribute the ball to the DMC.
Click to expand...

Will try it out, Messi is indeed very attacking and I hadn't noticed that...he was still set this high from when I was trying him out in the AMC position and wanted him to push forward. I've not tried what you said about the GK's distribution, I'll try it, my only worry is that he might give it away a bit by risking a pass that far forward...but maybe he won't risk a risky pass and pass it to one of the CB's instead. Will let you know.
 
Works very well from goal kicks, the DMC will drop deep between the CBs to get the ball.
 
germainelol said:
Will try it out, Messi is indeed very attacking and I hadn't noticed that...he was still set this high from when I was trying him out in the AMC position and wanted him to push forward. I've not tried what you said about the GK's distribution, I'll try it, my only worry is that he might give it away a bit by risking a pass that far forward...but maybe he won't risk a risky pass and pass it to one of the CB's instead. Will let you know.
Click to expand...
In my opinion the traquerista role isn't the role that messi plays in..when you read what they write about it in the description it's the same..but on the pitch it's not even close....maybe the DLF or something that runs deep more often and his mentality isn't so attacking
 
germainelol said:
I've been trying to work on combining these 2 tactics:

La Masia FM12 classic tactic: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2012-tactics-training/90931-%5Bbarcelona%5D%5Btested-athletic-bilbao%5D-la-masia-philosophy.html
- Good possession stats
- Generally good defensively
- Not enough goals scored, and a lot of the shots were from far out
Click to expand...

Thats awesome! I've actually been using this FM12 tactic on FM13 and I love how it produces some beautiful play. Best i've seen for FM13 in terms of emulating some fantastic tiki-taka. The problem I had with it is that it was made for FM12 and not FM13 so it's not totally usable. Glad to see someone else has picked up on it and trying to make it work. Will be following you.
 
Getting the GK to distribute the ball to the DMC has helped a little. I'm waiting until I get to play Madrid and some more difficult CL opponents at the moment to judge the tactic, I've stomped everyone so far so it's showing good signs I guess.
 
JimmyGuitarist said:
This is what the average positioning is generally like.
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This was Barca's average positioning over the weekend against Levante.
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Click to expand...

looks awesome :) could you post your updated tactic? I'll give it a whirl! I've got similar sort of positions going on right now except I'm having trouble trying to find a comprimise with Messi/Neymar's positioning on the pitch.

In real life as you showed, Messi is indeed a deep striker, but he plays slightly to the right, which allows for the left winger (Neymar or whoever) to push quite far inside, ahead of the RW player almost playing as a second striker. I've struggled to replicate this in FM. If I put Messi to the right, he is almost too far right, and if I push Neymar slightly more central, he is almost TOO central.

Does anyone have any ideas for this? I'll try your tactic out when you post it anyway Jimmy, I like the look of it! :)
 
germainelol said:
looks awesome :) could you post your updated tactic? I'll give it a whirl! I've got similar sort of positions going on right now except I'm having trouble trying to find a comprimise with Messi/Neymar's positioning on the pitch.

In real life as you showed, Messi is indeed a deep striker, but he plays slightly to the right, which allows for the left winger (Neymar or whoever) to push quite far inside, ahead of the RW player almost playing as a second striker. I've struggled to replicate this in FM. If I put Messi to the right, he is almost too far right, and if I push Neymar slightly more central, he is almost TOO central.

Does anyone have any ideas for this? I'll try your tactic out when you post it anyway Jimmy, I like the look of it! :)
Click to expand...

What if you try moving the AML to AMCL, change role to Inside Forward but wide play: Hug Touchline..see what that accomplishes
 
Well Iniesta is AMCL at the moment, I'll try dropping him to a CM with Xavi and putting Neymar AMCL with hug touchline like you said :)
 
442 But Similar in styles to barca(Leeds70's Don Revie Style)

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:-Those Tactics with crazy positions dont work defensivly,
:-here is a442 with similar style to barca(not created 4 them tho)
:-Its revelutionary tactic
:-used by many on here downloaded lots
:-messi & Neymar up front
:-messi right side forward and neymar poacher use prefered moves one twos for both, train if not
:-u will dominate everything 100%
:-I had Invincibles Not losing when i used with barca
:-u will laugh just how good this is
:-currently being tested in testing project"Build the perfect Beast"
:-Here it is
 
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Can't seem to get Messi playing as deep with your tactic Jimmy for some reason!
 
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